Faint Sewer Smell

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DIY-JourneyMan

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Hello All,

I have an intermittent sewer smell, that's mostly faint. And, here's what's happened to date:

1) Removed carpeting from Master Bathroom.
2) New smooth subflooring laid over orginal subfloor.
3) Vinyl flooring laid
4) Noticed slight sewer smell
5) Added more wax to installed wax ring
6) Caulked around base of toilet


Five and Six cut down on the smell, however its still there. I'm thinking about pulling the toliet and laying a caulk bead around the drain and where the vinyl meets it. Am I barking up the wrong tree? Could there be a gap between the new and old subfloor?

TIA
Duan
 

Jadnashua

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Does the toilet rock at all? If so, pull it up, clean off the wax, set it back down determine where shims need to go, then reinstall it properly with the shims and a new wax ring. Any rocking at all will break the seal.

Had it leaked before? Sometimes you have to cut out the damaged subflooring. Check out the other drains, especially the overflow of the vanity. Sometimes that will grow some nasties. Bleach usually helps.
 

DIY-JourneyMan

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Hello jadnashua,

The toliet doesn't rock at all, and to my knowledge never has, however the carpeting did hide many imperfections in the subfloor. I'll pour a bottle of bleach down the toliet tonight, and if that doesn't help I'll pull the toliet and cut away the vinyl that surrounds the drain. I'm thinking maybe there's a small section of subflooring thats messed up:confused:

The wax ring has been a victim of my learning (i.e. 1 1/2 rings :eek: )
What is the best method of dealing with the bolts that hold the toliet? I've cut them in order to reinstall the caps that cover them. Now I think that if I remove the bolts with the jagged edges I may ruin the nuts, should I grind them to a point?

Thanks,
Duan
 

Jadnashua

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The point on the bleach is sometimes the sink overflow gets all crudy. Some bleach down there may help.

Was the toilet sitting on the carpet or a solid surface? If on the carpet, it would rock a little, but you might not notice it. If it was on the floor, and the carpet was installed around it so the toilet was sitting on a hard surface, it that may not be the issue.

Does the subflooring show any moisture? Where is the flange relative to the subfloor - even, recessed, above?

Some of the toilet bolts come pre-scored, so they break off in maybe 1/4" increments. They have a milled out section between the threads, and thus leave virgin threads to start your nut. Check around to see what is available. If you are going to replace them, thread a nut down on them first, cut it, then when you back the thing off, it will clean up the threads on the end. You can file it into a nice rounded ball if you want to take the time, but just putting a mild taper right at the end before you back off the nut should restraighten the threads.
 

Cass

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If you pull the toilet, there are enzyme odor eliminators that work great. Just saturate the subfloor around the flange and allow it to dry and reinstall the toilet. Are you on a slab, basement, or 2nd floor?

Like JD said check the sink pop up area and trap. Slow drains can build up crud that can stink. Also hair can build up on the pop up rod and catch tooth paste and other stuff that can give off a stink.
 

Prashster

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I had buildup in my sink overflow. In my one-data-point experience, though, turning the sink on activates the odor by forcing air or moisture across the (bacteria?). So, if your smell is present when everything's off and does not increase when the water's on, then my instinct is it's not the overflow. Also, my overflow odor was sulfury and eggy. The sewer smell is unmistakable and different, IMHO.

My money is on a bad seal or a venting problem.
 

DIY-JourneyMan

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jadnashua...The toliet sat on top of the carpet, if I remember correctly there was some water damage to the subfloor from what looked like the toliet overflowing. However the flooring was still solid, just stained. I think the flange is above the subflooring. As for my bolts, I'm guessing I got the cheap ones, they came with one of the wax rings. I'll take my rotory tool to them to round them off.

Cass...The bathroom in question is on a second floor. I'll look into the sinks tonight.

prashster...when you say seal, are you talking about the wax ring?

Last night I poured an entire bottle of bleach down the toliet. As of this morning nothing but the smell of bleach (which is alot better than sewer gas). I'm assuming that the smell only shows up when nothing is running. Namely because we don't smell it untill we return home from work. There is a fan over the toliet, should I replace it? Or just verify that everything is connected?

Thanks for the advise. Can't wait to take a wiff when I go home!

Duan
 

Geniescience

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not the fan. don't work on the fan. find the source of the smell.

I had the same problem that Prashster described, and Jim deB too. Tape over the sink and its overflow hole, wait three days and see if the smell is still there. Remove the tape slowly and smell what is in there. Run a little water and wait for whatever smell comes out.

duan, the goal is to isolate the source. it is either one thing or another.

david
 

Prashster

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Seal = wax ring. If the prob is a broken wax ring, then bleach won't help for very long. Sewer gases come fm the septic or sewer system, and a little bit of bleach will only coat the pipe and overpower the smell for a very short time. If the prob is some crud stuck in the sink o.f. or in the pipe itself, then bleach might be effective in killing it.
 

DIY-JourneyMan

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Hello All,

Here's where I stand, last night when I got home I didn't smell any sewer gas:D However, I think I'm coming down with a sinus infection, so my nose can't be trusted:eek: Now my wife and sister-in-law claim they smelled sewer gas sometime around mid day. I got home around five thirty and didn't pick up a scent throughout the night. It's been an intermittent problem, so maybe I need to keep an eye/nose on it util the weekend?

As for my wax seal, well that is a funny situation;) I started with one of those re-inforced wax rings which smashed into shape just fine. Then I took half of a second wax ring and filled in the spots the 1st ring didn't cover. From there I covered my "wax ring art work" with the toliet only to watch about 20% of it squeeze out from under the base:eek: Secured the toliet and caulked the base. Should I have removed the 1st wax ring?

Thanks,
Duan
 

SteveW

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"Houston, we have a problem..."

DIY-JourneyMan said:
Hello All,


As for my wax seal, well that is a funny situation;) I started with one of those re-inforced wax rings which smashed into shape just fine. Then I took half of a second wax ring and filled in the spots the 1st ring didn't cover. From there I covered my "wax ring art work" with the toliet only to watch about 20% of it squeeze out from under the base:eek: Secured the toliet and caulked the base. Should I have removed the 1st wax ring?

Thanks,
Duan


Sounds like you've identified the source -- if I'm reading this right, you placed the toilet, with wax ring attached, on the toilet flange, then lifted the toilet back off the flange, then added more wax, then placed the toilet back on the flange?

If I'm reading this right, that could cause a leak. Once you place the toilet and wax ring on the flange, you can't lift the toilet and re-use that wax ring -- have to clean the mating surfaces and start over with a new ring.
 

Jadnashua

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Also, it is nearly impossible to have a toilet sit on carpeting and maintain a good seal. The toilet must sit on a hard, stable surface. Wax is not elastic, once you smash it down if the thing moves you will cause the seal to fail. Every time it moves, just a little bit, you compress the wax, and when it rocks back, it will attempt to stretch. It has very little tolerance for this, and eventually it lets go leaving a small gap. Gas can and will find its way out. The bigger the gap, the larger amount of gas.
 

DIY-JourneyMan

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Wax Solution?

Hello Steve,

Ok, so I should have used a new ring:rolleyes: What would cause it to be such a sometimey thing? I would imagine if the seal was bad the smell would be constant. Would an opening between the two subfloor surfaces next to the flange have an affect on the smell? And, be it that the toliet is caulked to the floor, how and were is the sewer gas escaping?

So my weekend project has been selected, wax ring replacement;)

Thanks,

Duan
 

Geniescience

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duan

to answer your Q, i'll guess that sewer gasses do not exert constant pressure and do not "try" to come up into your house at a constant rate. Thus it makes sense that a small opening could allow gasses to come through as an intermittent smell. However i could be 100% wrong about this. Personally i think a wax ring repair is a good idea and i still wouln't be surprised at all if the smell keeps on coming back as before. Chances are not high or low, just unknowable.

DAvid
 

Jadnashua

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The drain lines are open to the atmosphere through the vent line up to the roof. Wind is the most common thing that would affect the pressure in the system. Obviously, significant flow will affect things as can a clog anywhere. So, it is not at all unusual for the smell to be intermittent.
 

DIY-JourneyMan

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Yesterday's Progress

Hello All,

I didn't get to it this weekend like I wanted, however I did get it done yesterday evening. Here's what I discovered, a void between the vinyl and the subfloor roughly a half an inch around the flange. What looked like a slightly off wax ring and possibly too much wax towards the rear of the toliet. So this is what I did: Removed the toliet, cleaned out/off old wax ring, clean wax ring channel on bottom of toliet, and reinstalled toliet. I bought two wax rings (1 super fat w/ reinforcement & 1 regular plain jane) with the intent of installing the fat one on the flange on the floor and installing the regular one on the toliet's flange. While cleaning the bottom of the toliet I realized that the channel isn't that big:eek: So maybe two rings might be too much? I installed the fat ring on the toliet's flange and just as I fitted the toliet over the mounting bolts I heard the wax ring fall onto the floor's flange. I'm pretty sure it got smashed between the two. Reconnected everything and discovered that the bolts were too long, so I reground them again. This made me think that maybe I had too much wax under there to begin with and that maybe this caused a small enough void somewhere to allow the sewer smell to escape? Recaulked the base, and now I'm crossing my fingers in hopes that my wife doesn't smell the dreaded scent of sewer:eek:

Thanks for all the suggestions and I'll keep you posted on the results. By the way how do I post pictures:confused:

Duan
 

Jadnashua

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There may be a minimum posts requirement before yo are allowed to post a picture. But, when composing a message, if you scroll down a little there under Additional Options is a place to upload pictures. The pictures must be saved with fairly low resolution and maximum size so they meet the size requirements. Many photo editor programs will allow you to do that in prep for uploading them.
 

DIY-JourneyMan

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Bad News

Hello All,

I just spoke with my wife and she said the sewer smell is still there. Now what?

She did offer this tid bit, once while cleaning the tub she heard the pipes creak/moan. When we bought the house the pipes used to buzz & hum. However I havn't heard them do that in quite some time. She said shortly after hearing that she smelled the sewer. Also, I've noticed that sometimes when the tub spout is off we'll get a quick light spurt of water? I've also noticed that right after I turn the shower off, wait a minute or so and the shower head spits out some water? Could this have something to do with our smell?

I'm at a complete loss?

Thanks

Duan
 

DIY-JourneyMan

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A thought

Could my new flooring be the cause of the problem? I read some where that the flange on the floor should be at least a quarter of an inch above the floors surface. Now I wish I had measured it. That plus I don't remember getting that mushy feeling as I installed the bowl. Is there a way to extend the flange?

TIA

Duan
 

Jadnashua

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The flange should be sitting on top of the finished floor with the bottom of the flange flush with and firmly attached to the floor.
 
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