(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Dishwasher overflow in sink came apart...

  1. #1

    Default Dishwasher overflow in sink came apart...

    the dishwasher overflow in the sink that connects to the disposal came apart when i was cleaning it. the green nozzle is just hanging under the sink now and the plastic/chrome cover is completely off.

    do i just use plumber's putty to reattach it? if so, how do i seal it from the bottom?

    thanks!

  2. #2
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    9,001

    Default

    You may need to buy a new one, because the reason it is hanging under the sink could be that the top flange nut cracked or stripped. Anyway, whether it is the new one or old one, they come with a foam gasket to seal, but I would use some putty or silicone as well. Don't run the diswasher while it is hanging down!

  3. #3

    Default flange nut?

    ok, what does the top flange nut look like?

  4. #4
    Plumber plumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,423

    Default

    Turn the chrome cover over , you should see some threads right there at the bottom. That would be the nut.

  5. #5

    Default

    If we're talking about the air gap, and I think we are, they are rarely ever used anymore. You can just get rid of it altogether and buy a metal plug for the hole in your sink.

    First, though, you must disconnect both rubber hoses from the plastic part of the air gap (the part dangling under your sink) and connect these hoses together using a hose connector and two hose clamps.

    Now you can create your own air gap by raising this single hose as high as it will go and securing it in this position using a piece of wire or a couple twist-ties. Just find something under your sink to tie the hose to in this elevated position.

    The reason you need an air gap with a dishwasher is to prevent waste water from your garbage disposer getting into your nice clean dishwasher.

    But, as I mentioned, the above-sink airgap has been replaced by the below-sink method I just outlined.


    Eric
    Last edited by Verdeboy; 07-12-2006 at 10:38 PM.

  6. #6
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    Posts
    2,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdeboy
    If we're talking about the air gap, and I think we are, they are rarely ever used anymore. You can just get rid of it altogether and buy a metal plug for the hole in your sink.

    First, though, you must disconnect both rubber hoses from the plastic part of the air gap (the part dangling under your sink) and connect these hoses together using a hose connector and two hose clamps.

    Now you can create your own air gap by raising this single hose as high as it will go and securing it in this position using a piece of wire or a couple twist-ties. Just find something under your sink to tie the hose to in this elevated position.

    The reason you need an air gap with a dishwasher is to prevent waste water from your garbage disposer getting into your nice clean dishwasher.

    But, as I mentioned, the above-sink airgap has been replaced by the below-sink method I just outlined.


    Eric
    Bad advice on many fronts. In some states they are enforced to protect from the reversal of contaminates into a device that produces sterile goods for the consumption of food.


    There's a reason it was installed to begin with. Removing devices intended to protect human life is ignorance.

    High looping never protects from the reversal of flow; water/fluids follow the path of least resistance and the clogged sink will backflow to the dishwasher before it ever spills over the flood level rim of the sink.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RUGGED


    There's a reason it was installed to begin with. Removing devices intended to protect human life is ignorance.

    .
    A pacemaker is a device intended to protect human life. An air gap, at least in Michigan, is an obsolete piece of useless plastic that I haven't even seen installed for ten years. Furthermore, you can raise the hose under the sink to just a tad below the level of the top of the sink. Finally, if your sink is that backed up, you're not gonna be able to use your dishwasher anyway. And even if a small amount of dirty water got in there, it would be sitting in the bottom of the dishwasher. Once the drain problem is fixed, you then just run the dishwasher again.
    Last edited by Verdeboy; 07-13-2006 at 12:31 AM.

  8. #8
    Plumber plumber1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,423

    Default

    I'm from Michigan too. We used to do the loop thing 40 or more years ago, but then it became code to use an air-gap. If that has changed then I don't know about. I'm from south eastern Mich.

  9. #9
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    Posts
    2,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdeboy
    A pacemaker is a device intended to protect human life. An air gap, at least in Michigan, is an obsolete piece of useless plastic that I haven't even seen installed for ten years. Furthermore, you can raise the hose under the sink to just a tad below the level of the top of the sink. Finally, if your sink is that backed up, you're not gonna be able to use your dishwasher anyway. And even if a small amount of dirty water got in there, it would be sitting in the bottom of the dishwasher. Once the drain problem is fixed, you then just run the dishwasher again.

    Two things can be derived from that statement:

    You are not a licensed plumber and you do not have education in cross-connections/backflow contamination. Stick to using twist-ties to fix your
    plumbing.

    High looping is a direct connection to the waste system and without the proper safeholds, it will contaminate the dishwasher. Plumbing principle #15, please read it. This goes to all plumbers who can think beyond their local code book and understand that high looping of a drain for a dishwasher is a gamble at best of working with the idea that the chances are slim that it will happen.

    I'm glad KY has the strictest plumbing codes in the country and others refer to our state for code references. It's great to not know any other way for plumbing requirements.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by plumber1
    I'm from Michigan too. We used to do the loop thing 40 or more years ago, but then it became code to use an air-gap. If that has changed then I don't know about. I'm from south eastern Mich.
    I've worked in all sorts of apartment complexes in S.E. MIchigan over the past 15 years and some of them considered "luxury". Used to see airgaps back in the early nineties, but haven't seen one lately. I'm not a licensed plumber, just a maintenance man. In fact, I'm the one who has gone and high looped dishwasher drains that were just dragging on the ground!

    Eric

  11. #11

    Default fixed!

    thanks for all the help.

    i got it fixed w/ some muscle from my dad. i couldn't screw the top on the sink at the same time while holding up the hose underneath the sink. being 9 months pregnant doesn't help manueverability

  12. #12
    Retired plumber speedball1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sarasota Fl.
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RUGGED
    Bad advice on many fronts. In some states they are enforced to protect from the reversal of contaminates into a device that produces sterile goods for the consumption of food.


    There's a reason it was installed to begin with. Removing devices intended to protect human life is ignorance.

    High looping never protects from the reversal of flow; water/fluids follow the path of least resistance and the clogged sink will backflow to the dishwasher before it ever spills over the flood level rim of the sink.

    High looping never protects from the reversal of flow; water/fluids follow the path of least resistance and the clogged sink will backflow to the dishwasher before it ever spills over the flood level rim of the sink.


    SAY WHAT?? Tell that to the countless dishwasher owners with drip loops that have been in operation with no problem for decades in my area. And believe me we've done a bunch of condos on the West Coast of Florida for the last 40 years with no complaints.
    I'll give you that if a home owner was stupid enough to fill a clogged sink up to the rim it would back up through the discharge hose. But as we discharge our dishwashers through the disposal and the home owner can see the water backing up before it even hits the drain we haven't had a home owner stupid enough to keep on filling a clogged sink. And besdes, we loop the hose up tight to the bottom of the cabinet top. You're gonna be backed up awfully close to the rim before it ever backs up into the DW. cheers, Tom
    Last edited by speedball1; 07-15-2006 at 11:12 AM.
    speedball1 is a veteran expert from AskMe.com.

  13. #13
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    Posts
    2,943

    Thumbs up

    I don't care what you have in your area, don't care what has worked for years. I'm going off the case histories recited through cross-connections between potable water systems and wastewater systems. This situation in particular deals with sterile goods and the device that creates sterile utensils for humans.

    As I repeat as I have countless times before, plumbing principle #15......it specifically states no direct connection to the waste system.

    I'll give you that if a home owner was stupid enough to fill a clogged sink up to the rim it would back up through the discharge hose. But as we discharge our dishwashers through the disposal and the home owner can see the water backing up before it even hits the drain we haven't had a home owner stupid enough to keep on filling a clogged sink.

    Here's the problem with your statement, you assume that someone is there to see the problem. That isn't the case. There is countless cross-connections caused by backflow/reversal of flow in potable water systems and wastewater systems. Also "complaints" is not what us plumbers are designed to take care of. We're put in this profession to enable plumbing systems to operate without error. You design a plumbing system to contaminate a device that produces sterile goods and you have a compromised plumbing system. End of statement.

    There's a case history of a woman who didn't know when she went upstairs to use her toilet, shower and and sink before she left on a plane trip that her wastewater went straight to the dishwasher because it followed the path of least resistance. That was a "supposed foolproof" high loop that I hear many spout off about as an approach to provide protection.

    Air Gaps are required in all types of commercial applications in all states. Just because the local authority is laxing on this particular requirement doesn't mean it doesn't provide adequate protection.

    I think most times the reason why high looping is so prevalent is due to pure laziness on the installer and the avoidance to drill a hole in the sink top. Better you than me as I will never afford that stupidity.

    Been frequenting/modding forums for years and I can count numerous threads with "Sink Backs up in Dishwasher" or "Raw Sewage in Dishwasher". That's enough to make anyone sick that doesn't realize it has happened.

    I have the distinct feeling that I'm the only licensed backflow tester that frequents these forums on the www. I wish there were more as I'm tired of being a lone voice in the crowd of many.

    Doesn't bother me too much; I'm educating and that's what I'm here for. Along with free popcorn.

    If you don't like what I have to say I don't really care. I know for a god given fact that I can visit your neighborhood and visit a restaurant or commercial business that has Air Gaps scattered through numerous applications to protect the reversal of flow of contaminates.

    I can't help the fact that it's not code across the U S of A on the residential level; it should be as the potential for harm is there in black and white. It is in my state, damn proud of that as well. We care about our families.
    Last edited by Dunbar Plumbing; 07-15-2006 at 05:51 PM.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

  14. #14
    Retired plumber speedball1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sarasota Fl.
    Posts
    43

    Default

    All I'm saying Rugged is that in all the hundreds of GE dishwashers my company has installed over the years that not one, (count em!) ONE!! complaint has ever reached our service desk. I understand that code authorities look at worst case scenario, A case in point is backflow preventers. The idea was to protect the potable water supply from contamination if you had a open hose laying in a puddle od crud and the city pressure went down causing a vacuum in the main that would just suck the crud out into the city system. Well, it hasn't happened in our area in all the years before they mandated backflow preventers. Are we beginning to see a similar set- up here? I can understand the need for air gaps in commercial institutions but like backflow preventers it addresses a "worst case" scenario.
    You say, " Been frequenting/modding forums for years and I can count numerous threads with "Sink Backs up in Dishwasher" or "Raw Sewage in Dishwasher".

    I have been on the plumbing page in another Q&A site for over two years and if you wish I'll give you a link so you can go back over the complaints I've recieved. I don't recall even one complaint about sewerage backing up in a dishwasher. Smelly dishwashers, faulty pump dishwashers, noisey dishwashers but no sewer dishwashers. This is not to say that it couldn't happen the way that you describe It just hasn't happened either on the site I hang out at or in all my years installing dishwashers in projects and condos.

    You also said,"There's a case history of a woman who didn't know when she went upstairs to use her toilet, shower and and sink before she left on a plane trip that her wastewater went straight to the dishwasher because it followed the path of least resistance."

    Now that's interesting. The kitchen sink at 3 feet from floor to flood rim is the lowest point in the system? No first floor bath? 1/2 bath or a floor drain? You're correct Rugged, air gaps would take away any chance of backflow contamination but abstinence from sex would prevent, STD's, Aids, unwanted pregnancies and probably put the abortion clinics out of business since recreational sex would be out of the question. And look at how much traction abstinence has with the general public.

    just one question before I leave. Just what in hell is a "Licensed Backflow Tester"?
    "I have the distinct feeling that I'm the only licensed backflow tester that frequents these forums on the www. I wish there were more as I'm tired of being a lone voice in the crowd of many."

    You have yourself a great weekend. Tom
    Last edited by speedball1; 07-16-2006 at 08:30 AM.
    speedball1 is a veteran expert from AskMe.com.

  15. #15
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    Posts
    2,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by speedball1
    All I'm saying Rugged is that in all the hundreds of GE dishwashers my company has installed over the years that not one, (count em!) ONE!! complaint has ever reached our service desk. So if this doesn't happen in your back yard then it doesn't exist, right? Please educate yourself on cross-connection programs in your area. It's worth the time and knowledge. I understand that code authorities look at worst case scenario <the very reason codes exist, case history dictates code and code revisions. A case in point is backflow preventers. <Would be a whole lot of dead people without them. The idea was to protect the potable water supply from contamination if you had a open hose laying in a puddle od crud and the city pressure went down causing a vacuum in the main that would just suck the crud out into the city system. Well, it hasn't happened in all the years since they mandated backflow preventers. Case histories created this standard Are we beginning to see a similar set- up here? I can understand the need for air gaps in commercial institutions but like backflow preventers it addresses a "worst case" scenario. <Air Gaps protect human life, have no moving parts, are not that difficult to install. What is your problem with not grasping this reality? If installing an Air Gap is that difficult, you don't need to be putting your hands in this profession of plumbing. Sitting behind a screen answering questions might be more your forte.

    You say, " Been frequenting/modding forums for years and I can count numerous threads with "Sink Backs up in Dishwasher" or "Raw Sewage in Dishwasher". <Goooooooogle about 10 different word phrases in regards to the subject matter. I'm on no proving grounds and definitely you are since you seem to have more questions than answers.

    I have been on the plumbing page in another Q&A site for over two years and if you wish I'll give you a link so you can go back over the complaints I've recieved. I don't recall even one complaint about sewerage backing up in a dishwasher. Smelly dishwashers, faulty pump dishwashers, noisey dishwashers but no sewer dishwashers.<You shouldn't be in denial of something that happens more than you know. Wastewater and Sewage are the same exact thing. Just because it doesn't have fecal matter in it doesn't mean it isn't sewage. Any fluid/liquid that comes in contact with the drainage system is considered contaminated. No exceptions. Read the above and do the homework. It happens. This is not to say that it couldn't happen the way that you describe It just hasn't happened either on the site I hang out at or in all my years installing dishwashers in projects and condos. As I repeat, just because it doesn't happen to you personally or in your neighborhood doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

    You also said,"There's a case history of a woman who didn't know when she went upstairs to use her toilet, shower and and sink before she left on a plane trip that her wastewater went straight to the dishwasher because it followed the path of least resistance." <It is a case history in California that was told to us at the beginning of a meeting for credit hours for one of my many licenses I hold. I wasn't there, it's a "reported" incident that made to public record. I've posted that case history on many forums that became the subject matter. If I was to sit here behind my screen and guess why it happened without affecting other fixtures on the same level???? Separate branches in the system. More than one DWV stack due to the floor layout. Bathroom directly above the kitchen, 1/2 bath distanced 24 feet away against a exterior wall. Plumber used common sense and turned up a another stack to catch that bathroom a half a mile away. Especially if it wouldn't be prudent to bore joists or hang a soffit. PERIOD.



    Now that's interesting. The kitchen sink at 3 feet from floor to flood rim is the lowest point in the system? No first floor bath? 1/2 bath or a floor drain? You're correct Rugged, air gaps would take away any chance of backflow contamination <That's my whole point, what do you have against a device that saves any potential chance for problems? but abstinence from sex would prevent, STD's, Aids, unwanted pregnancies and probably put the abortion clinics out of business since recreational sex would be out of the question. And look at how much traction abstinence has with the general public.< I swear you got to be posting under two names on this site. Now we have pacemakers and abstinence in the same subject matter. Indirect statements like these reinforce the very reason why they have created cross-connection programs in the United States to protect people and animals from incorrect plumbing systems. A great deal of those doubt the true knowledge and background of the "what ifs" in plumbing when things go wrong.

    just one question before I leave. Just what in hell is a "Licensed Backflow Tester"?
    "I have the distinct feeling that I'm the only licensed backflow tester that frequents these forums on the www. I wish there were more as I'm tired of being a lone voice in the crowd of many." It's a certification that can be obtained in almost every state that most times is an elective qualification that deals solely with the testing of backflow devices from as intricate as a 12" RPBA or something as remedial as a simple vaccum breaker on a outside hose bibb. All in all, those who obtain this certification have the permission within their state to install/move/inspect annually any backflow device whether it is at the bottom of the ladder on the residential level up to high-rise 50 story buildings.

    Once a year along with fees for the license we are required to have recurring study/meetings to hold onto that license. I prefer to do it all in one day instead of 2 or 3 hour meetings a few times a year. During this day-long event we are brought into the classroom part of knowledge instead of on-the-job practice.

    A room full of people just like me talking/listening to some of the most unbelievable cross-connections and horror stories. If you think some things can't happen, you're mistaken. Along with the case histories come
    numerous speakers that give knowledge on advancements of the profession and how things have changed to better address certain problems associated with backflow-backsiphonage.

    I can rattle tons of knowledge off on this but it's pointless and I've made my point enough times. I really don't care if you personally don't agree with me. I know that hundreds if not thousands of eyes see these words and I really want those who nothing about plumbing to grasp the reality of my words. Those are the ones that are most susceptible to harm when they don't know what is wrong with plumbing can hurt them or their children. People like you might have an entirely different motive to challenge my thinking and it doesn't bother me. I love rattling this stuff off. I find it odd that you are a resident expert of another site wandering what a backflow tester is. Every time there is a clogged drain, that is backflow.

    I encourage you to seriously gain knowledge on this important field of knowledge so you can better help those that rely on you in other forums across the web. It will be beneficial to both you and those you imply knowledge to.


    KY B.L. Tester #97 if you need clarification of my credentials. Obtained October 11, 1998 and current active member in the program.



    You have yourself a great weekend. Words of encouragement not needed but I'll take the kind gesture without the sarcastic connotation implied.
    Anyone want to see my new Kipex 3-piece locking plier set?
    Last edited by Dunbar Plumbing; 07-16-2006 at 08:35 AM.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •