SlingBlade[LCD]
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Great forum - glad I found it.
Here's the situation, I'll try to provide as much detail as possible.
House was built, ~1988, we are third owners.
On well system, with 300'+ well, unknown pump, new water pressure tank, new water softener (last two a little over a year old)
Moved in about two years ago- have had very few problems w/ water supply.
5 weeks ago, we started a major kitchen remodel. 1st week was demo. (the kitchen remodel may be important)
4 weeks ago, the electrician showed up and began running new circuits for the changed kitchen layout.
4 weeks ago, they also had to move a hot and a cold line back 4' to acct for a wall movement (so, both hot and cold lines were open for a bit, but probably not important?)
4 weeks ago, we experienced what we believe to be a loss of power to in the finished basement (easier to trip breaker that governs basement outlets)
4 weeks ago, we also began experiencing the following:
a) under high demand (filling a tub, doing laundry) the water pressure will suddenly drop to zero.
b) I thought the wife was nuts, but sure enough I went and ran the tub at wide open on cold for about 5-8 minutes, and it suddenly cut off. About two minutes would pass, and then the water would come back on. After another two minutes ,the water goes back off. And so on.
c) So, I wait about an hour, then leave the cold water tap on full, and go watch the pressure tank gauge in the basement utility space.
At about 36-40psi, the pump kicks on (can feel slight vibration on pressure tank) and the pressure rises back up to about 55-60psi. The switch clicks, and the pump goes off (stop feeling vibration). THe pressure then begins to fall as the cold water tap is drawing the pressure down. When it gets to the cutoff, the pump kicks back on.
HOWEVER - this cycle will only go about 3 times. Upon the third or fourth pump on cycle, the pressure fails to get to the upper limit, but the pump cuts off anyways (thermal protect?). At that point it goes into the on 2 minutes, off two minutes state, and the water pressure from the taps follows suit (obviously), going on two minutes, then off w/ no water for 2 minutes. Keeps going like that.
I have done the following:
1. Consult w/ a buddy of a buddy who is apparently a "well guy". He checked over the amperage and voltage at the pressure switch at the base of the pressure tank. He said it appeared that he was getting about 15 amps, which was high. He said that normally when a pump is "getting shot" you might pull 30 amps, but that 15 amps was definitely over what it ought to be.
He did notice that the only 14 month old pressure tank (State PumpMate Diapraghm Pump Tank Model SPMD20, old one was leaking when we moved in) appeared to have the new pressure switch set to 30/50. However it is supposed to be a 40/60 switch. He didn't understand why it had been lowered by the plumbers that did the tank installation work last year, and we agree that he should move it back to 40/60, which he did.
We left it at that and I spent the rest of the weekend troubleshooting myself, not wanting to chuck out the $$$ for a new pump.
2. Checked the bladder in the pressure tank
I shut the breaker off to the well pump, opened up the faucet nearest the tank, and waited until the water ran out. Leaving the faucet open, I went and checked the schrader valve psi. (no water came out)
I got 32 - ? (This was after the well guy left, but I don't think he checked this).
My understanding is that it should be ~2# under the switch setting.
So, I pumped it back to 38 psi using a good bicycle pump. Verified the psi twice, and recapped the valve, flipped the breaker back on.
Ran the "run-down" test again, no effect, still 2 min cycling eventually.
3. Let the sucker pump for awhile, see if the breaker gets hot.
It was also suggested that possibly one of the dual breakers is getting hot under load - so i let the pump cycle for about 10 minutes after going into "2 min repeat mode" - the breaker seemed fine, no heat.
Equipment:
Well: In excess of 300 feet. Not sure exactly, will pull county records tomorrow.
Pump(s): (this is unclear)
Older looking sticker on the breaker panel indicates
Myers 2NFL1 9.6amp Date 0694
Newer looking sticker on the breaker panel indicates
Franklin Electric 2445089004, HP1, 230V RPM 3450, 8.2AMP, 9.8AMP
(no install date)
Its not clear if the Franklin is what is in there now.
Apparently the year before we moved in (2004), there was a lightning strike which took out the pump and the owner replaced it himself, most likely with a Home Depot jobby (2003). No idea what he did or did not put in there.
So, I may be on the 2nd or 3rd pump over the lifetime of this house.
Water Softner and Whole House Filter:
(I have replaced the filter diligently.)Its a Culligan model? capable of 9-10gals/min.
So, here we are:
During the week, its really not much of a problem. Its just the wife and me for the next 3-4 weeks (baby incoming at end of July!)
Never seem to run out.
But on the weekends with laundry, house cleaning, and additional showers, this is a problem. It will be worse with the new baby, I'm sure. Esp when mother in law comes in. Yikes!
Questions:
1. What the heck is going on? Why has the water system been rock solid, and now having issues?
2. Could the electrician, while doing the kitchen rewiring, screwed up the volts available to the pump? I'm thinking it is way too much of a coincidence that the both the apparent decrease in power in the finished basement AND the pump problems start the same week the electrician comes out and tears open the panel?
3. Are there any tests on the elec panel/pump/switch that myself or the electrician can do to check to make sure he has not effected the voltage to the pumps and basement? Is this even possible?
4. Is it possible that the well is not producing as much as it used to?
None of the neighbors having problem and plenty of rain over last 2 months. Again, this all seems mighty coincidental.
Sorry for the industrial size post - but I wanted to get all the details in.
Thanks in advance - much appreciated! (I guess you could say the "pressure" to fix this issue on, w/ the newborn coming and all)
Here's the situation, I'll try to provide as much detail as possible.
House was built, ~1988, we are third owners.
On well system, with 300'+ well, unknown pump, new water pressure tank, new water softener (last two a little over a year old)
Moved in about two years ago- have had very few problems w/ water supply.
5 weeks ago, we started a major kitchen remodel. 1st week was demo. (the kitchen remodel may be important)
4 weeks ago, the electrician showed up and began running new circuits for the changed kitchen layout.
4 weeks ago, they also had to move a hot and a cold line back 4' to acct for a wall movement (so, both hot and cold lines were open for a bit, but probably not important?)
4 weeks ago, we experienced what we believe to be a loss of power to in the finished basement (easier to trip breaker that governs basement outlets)
4 weeks ago, we also began experiencing the following:
a) under high demand (filling a tub, doing laundry) the water pressure will suddenly drop to zero.
b) I thought the wife was nuts, but sure enough I went and ran the tub at wide open on cold for about 5-8 minutes, and it suddenly cut off. About two minutes would pass, and then the water would come back on. After another two minutes ,the water goes back off. And so on.
c) So, I wait about an hour, then leave the cold water tap on full, and go watch the pressure tank gauge in the basement utility space.
At about 36-40psi, the pump kicks on (can feel slight vibration on pressure tank) and the pressure rises back up to about 55-60psi. The switch clicks, and the pump goes off (stop feeling vibration). THe pressure then begins to fall as the cold water tap is drawing the pressure down. When it gets to the cutoff, the pump kicks back on.
HOWEVER - this cycle will only go about 3 times. Upon the third or fourth pump on cycle, the pressure fails to get to the upper limit, but the pump cuts off anyways (thermal protect?). At that point it goes into the on 2 minutes, off two minutes state, and the water pressure from the taps follows suit (obviously), going on two minutes, then off w/ no water for 2 minutes. Keeps going like that.
I have done the following:
1. Consult w/ a buddy of a buddy who is apparently a "well guy". He checked over the amperage and voltage at the pressure switch at the base of the pressure tank. He said it appeared that he was getting about 15 amps, which was high. He said that normally when a pump is "getting shot" you might pull 30 amps, but that 15 amps was definitely over what it ought to be.
He did notice that the only 14 month old pressure tank (State PumpMate Diapraghm Pump Tank Model SPMD20, old one was leaking when we moved in) appeared to have the new pressure switch set to 30/50. However it is supposed to be a 40/60 switch. He didn't understand why it had been lowered by the plumbers that did the tank installation work last year, and we agree that he should move it back to 40/60, which he did.
We left it at that and I spent the rest of the weekend troubleshooting myself, not wanting to chuck out the $$$ for a new pump.
2. Checked the bladder in the pressure tank
I shut the breaker off to the well pump, opened up the faucet nearest the tank, and waited until the water ran out. Leaving the faucet open, I went and checked the schrader valve psi. (no water came out)
I got 32 - ? (This was after the well guy left, but I don't think he checked this).
My understanding is that it should be ~2# under the switch setting.
So, I pumped it back to 38 psi using a good bicycle pump. Verified the psi twice, and recapped the valve, flipped the breaker back on.
Ran the "run-down" test again, no effect, still 2 min cycling eventually.
3. Let the sucker pump for awhile, see if the breaker gets hot.
It was also suggested that possibly one of the dual breakers is getting hot under load - so i let the pump cycle for about 10 minutes after going into "2 min repeat mode" - the breaker seemed fine, no heat.
Equipment:
Well: In excess of 300 feet. Not sure exactly, will pull county records tomorrow.
Pump(s): (this is unclear)
Older looking sticker on the breaker panel indicates
Myers 2NFL1 9.6amp Date 0694
Newer looking sticker on the breaker panel indicates
Franklin Electric 2445089004, HP1, 230V RPM 3450, 8.2AMP, 9.8AMP
(no install date)
Its not clear if the Franklin is what is in there now.
Apparently the year before we moved in (2004), there was a lightning strike which took out the pump and the owner replaced it himself, most likely with a Home Depot jobby (2003). No idea what he did or did not put in there.
So, I may be on the 2nd or 3rd pump over the lifetime of this house.
Water Softner and Whole House Filter:
(I have replaced the filter diligently.)Its a Culligan model? capable of 9-10gals/min.
So, here we are:
During the week, its really not much of a problem. Its just the wife and me for the next 3-4 weeks (baby incoming at end of July!)
Never seem to run out.
But on the weekends with laundry, house cleaning, and additional showers, this is a problem. It will be worse with the new baby, I'm sure. Esp when mother in law comes in. Yikes!
Questions:
1. What the heck is going on? Why has the water system been rock solid, and now having issues?
2. Could the electrician, while doing the kitchen rewiring, screwed up the volts available to the pump? I'm thinking it is way too much of a coincidence that the both the apparent decrease in power in the finished basement AND the pump problems start the same week the electrician comes out and tears open the panel?
3. Are there any tests on the elec panel/pump/switch that myself or the electrician can do to check to make sure he has not effected the voltage to the pumps and basement? Is this even possible?
4. Is it possible that the well is not producing as much as it used to?
None of the neighbors having problem and plenty of rain over last 2 months. Again, this all seems mighty coincidental.
Sorry for the industrial size post - but I wanted to get all the details in.
Thanks in advance - much appreciated! (I guess you could say the "pressure" to fix this issue on, w/ the newborn coming and all)
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