warned on inspectors...

**coach606** · 07-06-2006, 12:07 PM

A couple of fellow DIY'ers, mostly old timers, have strongly cautioned me about consulting my plumbing inspector prior to beginning my work. I was planning on discussing my design with the inspector and seeing what he wanted to see.

The warning was that some inspectors simply don't want to see non-plumbers do plumbing, period. I was told that he could simply order me to have a plumber do it if I asked him questions before I started. According to our code, homeowners are allowed to "pull" the permit on plumbing for their own home in our area.

Has anyone had this experience of the inspector demanding a plumber?

**Bud1300** · 07-06-2006, 12:23 PM

The code will allowed the home owners to pull permits at their homes but the work has to be inspected, most of the inspecter in my town do not like this but they even give some of the plumbers a hard time . The city codes can change from city to city so i would check with them first.

**Hazel** · 07-06-2006, 01:23 PM

I don't know if it's general experience, but I met my inspector and he seemed adversarial, very impatient and unwilling to advise me in the least. Didn't get a good reaction at all. That's a big reason why I'm on the forum seeking advice. Don't want to ask him anything! As for him demanding a plumber - I sure hope that doesn't happen. I can't afford one!

In contrast, my building inspector and electrical inspector have been very easy to work with. Giving lots of guidance and being genuinely interested in my project. I've really learned a lot from them and know I will end up with a good product as a result.

Hazel

**Terry** · 07-06-2006, 01:54 PM

Even plumbers on some jobs, like commercial work, will contact the local inspector and consult first.

Every inspector is different, and it's easier to do it his way, then to arque afterwards.

There are many places that allow homeowners to pull permits.
They sometimes require drawings, and sometimes not.

hj · 07-06-2006, 08:46 PM

The reason inspectors do not want to advise the customer about the work is;
1. that even with a detailed drawing neophytes can, and do, install it wrong. If the inspector advised him'her they will accuse him of making the error, and he does not want the liability for that.
2. They expect the installer to be conversant with the codes and not come running to them everytime they want some advice.

**coach606** · 07-06-2006, 09:11 PM

You're right, but most of the worry is not that I, or any other DIY'er, doesn't understand the code, but that inspectors don't have to accept something they don't like, even if it technically meets code. Heck, I'm going to do a wet vent once we clear zoning and although I got the design from a plumber on this board and it does meet IPC 2003 standards at least one person told me the inspector would laugh at the plan.

We'll see, I guess. Thanks for replying.

**Cass** · 07-07-2006, 05:44 AM

Inspectors are people that take there personalities with them. I had 1 inspector come back to reinspect a job on their time after work to help out a customer. On the other hand I had 1 inspector say that they wouldn't be back for 72 Hrs. because that is what state law allows.

Most are helpfull but very few that I know will help a DIYr.

I think they look at it like this, professional plumbers and inspectors have spent a lot of time to get where they are in respect to getting and keeping their licence and building a buisness. Why should they give away for free what they have earned with time and sweat and $$$. Most home owners wouldn't think of going to work and not getting paid for it.

Here is a reason why 1 pro will no longer give away time and info free. I had a plumber friend that heard of a family that had a 5 year old girl with a seveer handi cap and was spending all their time at the hospital. They needed a handi cap bathroom installed for her but didn't have that kind of $$$. He spent his time and went to all the suppliers and received donations of product and he spent his time and paid his guys to install everything. The homeowner who said he would help with anything that he needed sat on the couch and didn't lift a finger. Toward the end of the job the home owner approached the plumber and asked him if he would do a little unrequired additional work. The plumber said yes but he would have to pay $400.00 for supplys. Homeowner said yes. The plumber finished. They were at the hospital at the time. All in all the He did about $6-7,000.00 worth of donated parts and labor. He sent the people an invoice. 2 months later he called about the unpaid invoice and was told he wouldn't receive a penny because the whole job had taken longer than he said it would take.

My friend ripped up the invoice and vowed never to do anything like that again.

**prashster** · 07-07-2006, 06:11 AM

Fear of an adversarial inspector is not a reason to NOT get an inspection. That's like saying I don't like mean doctors so I'm not going to go to the hospital.

You gotta take the inspector for whatever he is. Educate yourself b4 u talk to him. Don't ask advice. Just ask whether X is allowed or not. Also, ask him exactly what he requires for the inspection.

Trust that he'll be reasonable and go from there.

**Mikey** · 07-07-2006, 06:43 AM

I installed a completely new DWV system in an 1800s house in NY state back in the 70s and the inspector was very helpful and supportive. Here in FL, a friend building a new house was held up by an inspector who insisted on having a "thermal expansion valve" installed either at the water heater or at the supply entrance to the house. This on a house with a) an expansion tank at the well, and b) an expansion tank on the WH. They had to call multiple plumbing firms and supply houses to find someone who even knew what it was, let alone how to install it. Everyone said it wasn't necessary, but for $100 the inspector was happy.

**coach606** · 07-07-2006, 07:02 AM

It seems most inspectors are reasonable. The stories that bother me are the ones where an inspector walks in and just says, hire a plumber. Or the rare, but possible scenario where you do a 100k remodel and the inspectors wind up asking you to do another 100k in work to bring the house up to code in other areas.

Seems like most inspectors are reasonable and understand their job. I'm going to consult mine before the project. Hopefully he'll just tell me what he's looking for or what to change in my plans.

**prashster** · 07-07-2006, 07:48 AM

If you don't bring it up to code then, you'd have to bring it up to code if/when you sell. Most inspectors will only inspect what's on the permit. They don't have the time to nitpick the rest of yr house.

If you spent 100k on a remodel, you had better have had rough inspections when they are (relatively) cheap to fix.

The point is, if you follow the permitting process, yr inspector may be a jerk, but he won't be able to screw you too badly.

One last thing: doing things off permit can void your homeowners insurance. If you have a leak or a fire, and it was your fault, you better have some deep pockets....

**coach606** · 07-07-2006, 08:12 AM

I'm not sure about this, but I don't think you HAVE to bring things up to code when you sell. Lots of things in my house were not up to code when we purchased. We have tons of electrical not to code. You buy an old house and you get what you get. It doesn't prevent you from selling as far a I know.

In fact, when we bought our condo there were some things not up to code and it was a new construction. We tried to negotiate to have some things brought up to code, but the developer just said that he would get to it eventually and that he doesn't negotiate code violations with a person buying one unit. They never did fix some of the problems.

Thanks for the tip on homeowners insurance. I'm not doing any electrical. But if there's a leak, I guess we'll just handle it without insurance.

**geniescience** · 07-07-2006, 08:15 AM

coach boy,

Post #5 is right.
Post #6 is wrong for many reasons. Don't conjecturize. Learn code. You can do it. Don't skip steps and jump to conclusions.

Plumbing is a difficult subject to master.

DAvid

**jimbo** · 07-07-2006, 08:21 AM

Local codes vary widely on bringing things up to code. Here, upon sale of a house, you will be required to have CA State Architect-approved earthquake straps on a WH, vacuum breakers on outside hose bibbs, 1.6GPF on all toilets, 2.5 gpms on all aerators, and home inspectors will gig for no GFI in the bathroom. Code doesn't mandate that last one, though, as far as I know.

**prashster** · 07-07-2006, 08:22 AM

The buyer can ask anything he wants. You're required to be in compliance with the code at the time of the fix. If the code changes after the fact, you're not liable - unless you never got a permit.

Of course, the buyer doesn't have to require you to fix anything if he loves the house so much.

Anyway, sounds like you're comfortable doing it at yr own risk.