Got a digital camera? Post a picture - when entering a reply, scroll down to manage attachments. You have to scale the pic down so the size is (I think) 50K or less, but you may already own s/w that will do that. Helps alot trying to figure out what is going on. And you are right, you want access to the cleanout. You hope you never need it, but when you do, you don't want to tear the wall down to get to it.