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Thread: From bad to worse, more remodel woes

  1. #16
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    Well, you came to this board and asked for help. True, the trap advice came unsolicitated, but you might want to consider that the folks who give advice on the board are anywhere for fairly accomplished DIYer to expert professional plumbers. Not one of us has give a good word for the drum trap. Why you thought you had to have one, I don't know, but there are plenty of reasons why you should change it to a P trap before you close the work up. You might check with the plumbers in your area and ask if they would recommend a drum trap.

  2. #17
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    What is amazing to me is that between 1:03 and 7:25 (my computer time on the posts) you got all that stuff together in what looks to me like the cleanest and neatest old plumbing area that I can imagine.

  3. #18
    Plumber Cass's Avatar
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    Well the drum trap appears upside down and the T with the C/O on it should be a Y and st.45 with a C/O. The right trap should be used. The coupling that connects the gav. to plastic may work but it is not a banded coupling like it should be. The banded couplings hold the pipe riged, that coupling will not. You also should have cut out as much of the galv. pipe as possible, there still seems to be quite a bit left but then again I can't tell how far the pipe continues.
    Other than that it is a clean neat job.

  4. #19

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    Well, you came to this board and asked for help. True, the trap advice came unsolicitated, but you might want to consider that the folks who give advice on the board are anywhere for fairly accomplished DIYer to expert professional plumbers. Not one of us has give a good word for the drum trap.
    I absolutely agree with you. I was not trying to be argumentitive and I know you guys are right. But my point was, the drum trap was already installed before anyone said anything about it being illegal or not used anymore. So at that point I was simply mentioning what I thought (as a novice) were its good points. Please don't think we dont appreciate all of the advice we have been given. But its put together now and while we will surely change all this in the future, it probably wont be today or tomorrow. Thats all I was really saying.

    We thought we needed a drum trap because there was one there already. My husband likes it so he was happy to put in another. We were told (not by anyone here) that we needed a compression fitting there, not a banded coupling, so that's why we did that fitting. We were in a huge time crunch here and were half way finished with this before we really had any responses here or had a chance to read. We didnt have the luxury of waiting to do this today or next weekend. So yes, we jumped the gun on the advice here.

    So at least now when we have the time we know the proper way to do it and we appreciate that everyone took the time to help us.

  5. #20

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    Cass, shouldn't the plug on the trap be at the bottom? Are you saying it should be on the top? Yeah, can see what you mean about the Y, we just duplicated what was already there. As far as where we cut the galvanized pipe, it goes about 8 more inches to the left and we cut it there because there was some grooves from a pipe wrench further down the pipe that we thought might interfere with the fitting. The compression fitting seems pretty rigid to us, other than that is there any problems with this compression fitting?

  6. #21
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking it will work

    sorry that no one mentioned the Drum trap should
    be cut out and not re-used again.....

    all that was necessary was a plain old p trap
    like I mentioned and some pvc and you
    would have been fine

    Actually , I am surrised that you were even able to find a drum trap
    in a hardware store... most places dont even carry them any-more


    if it does not leak it will probably last you
    another 40 years so let the next guy worry about it.

    leave sleeping dogs lie...
    Last edited by master plumber mark; 07-04-2006 at 06:19 AM.

  7. #22
    Plumber plumber1's Avatar
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    Quicker isn't always better.
    Just want to let you know for the future, hardly ever does a trap plug up.
    When a drain plugs up it usually starts at the downstream end of that branch, however far from your picture and works its way back to the fixture.
    Also that tee next to the dresser coupling should have been a 1 1/2" wye with a street 45 looking up to a p-trap. Your tee isn't a drain fitting.

  8. #23
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    1. HD does not worry about whether something is legal or not when they sell it. That is up to the buyer.
    2. If the tub is full of water when it plugs up, all that water may have to drain out of the drum trap when you unscrew the plug.
    3. The drum trap can be installed with the plug up or down. Usually down over a basement, and up in a second or third floor.
    4. The tees are water tees not drain tees.
    5. The compression coupling is a water fitting, not a drain fitting.
    Did HD guys tell you to use the tees and coupling and that it did not matter which you used?

  9. #24

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    Can't blame the HD guys for the T's, although I guess the guy was looking over our shoulder when we put it together. We didnt know there was a diff. The compression fitting and the drum trap are both from the advice of HD.

    As far as the "design" we simply copied what was already there. We put the T's where the T's were, we put the cap were the cap was and the trap where the trap was. Didn't realize that following the existing pipes from the last plumber could be so wrong. Another lesson learned.

    if it does not leak it will probably last you
    another 40 years so let the next guy worry about it.

    leave sleeping dogs lie...
    I appreciate this statement, thank you. Even though we didnt do it correctly, hopefully it will work (we are getting ready to test it right now for leaks). At this point I really have to look at it this way.

    This has certainly been another learning experience for us and I appreciate all the time, effort and wisdom of all of you. We're really just computer geeks.

  10. #25
    Homeowner geniescience's Avatar
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    hi Kat

    you have just received the world's best plumbing advice from Master Plumbers, as far as I can tell.

    All things begin equal, if I were in your shoes I would re-do it all while I still had my mind concentrated on this. You know where all the right parts go now. In all the right places.

    I think you can even get a P-trap with a little screw-off cap underneath it too, in case you want to be able to open it underneath, just like how you can open the drum trap today. Since i'm not a Master Plumber, I don't know whether or not that is permissible for one reason or another.

    The right drain configuration using Wye's seems important to me. To get water flowing downhilll and outside. If anything caused a little blockage, not having a Wye is just another factor preventing your drain water from pushing itself out. My opinion. I do know that the reason for Wye's and 45-degree (1/8 bends) is to let gravity move the water quickly downhill, and that this helps keep momentum. The T lying on its back that you have now is just like a bottleneck, not a smooth "encouraging" flow. I know it is true that it works today and it did work before. Still it is not Code and there is a very good reason for that.

    The reason it was poorly built before you got there was that someone did a hack job before you. Not a Plumber. Now you have repeated their mistakes. What would a home inspector say? One day the house has to be sold to someone else.

    David

  11. #26
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    And when you sell, the inspector will almost certainly require that you make the necessary change before the sale. Do it right now and be done with it. "It's OK for now" almost always translates to, "It's OK until it fails or until we are forced to do it right".

  12. #27
    DIY Senior Member SteveW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kat-diy
    The compression fitting seems pretty rigid to us, other than that is there any problems with this compression fitting?

    I'm a DIY'er like you, but I think the problem with that particular compression fitting, intended for water supply lines as hj and others have said, is that it will probably "catch" solids which flow past it. Drain fittings are designed with smooth turns (unlike the "tee" right before the compression fitting) and to have no gaps in the shoulder of the fitting (which would tend to snag passing stuff).

    Eventually, you're likely to have problems with clogging at that site.

    I know the frustration of having to rip out new work, having done so many times myself, but in the end you'll be glad you did the right thing.

  13. #28
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking problems happen

    problems always happen ....things stop up

    the question is how long from now....

    unless his wife has hair as long as a horse, the drain will most

    likely last him 25 years or so before it ever stops up......


    if he throws some liquid plumber down it every few years

    then flushes it out with hot water maybe it never will give him troubles...


    also the compression fitting is no big deal ...maybe something might

    catch on the pipe edjes inside it and maybe they wont......


    wait and see....
    Last edited by master plumber mark; 07-04-2006 at 04:19 PM.

  14. #29

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    This house was custom built for a doctor back in the 60's.... this is the original plumbing. Maybe it wasnt a good plumber who did this plumbing, but it was a plumber.

    I think we're going with Mark's advice, wait and see. Yeah, I like that, I think that's what we will do. We're in Indiana too, maybe that has something to do with it. I do know that this place passed inspection when we bought it two years ago. Maybe it won't next time, maybe I wont be here to worry about it.

    Mark, that would be MY hair that's long, and yeah it is a bit long, but not as long as a horse and certainly not as thick.

    Please don't think we are ignoring the advice here because we will certainly take it to heart. But right now we have a bathroom that's totally ripped apart and a long way to go to put it back together. If we still have steam when we are done, maybe we'll fix it. Maybe we will wait until we replace the rest of the plumbing here, which will probably have to be done sooner rather than later. Right now I'm just exhausted from this project, not feeling as young as I used to.

    It passed the leak test with flying colors, right now I'm just relieved about that!

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