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Thread: Kohler Rialto K-3402 toilet fill valve repair

  1. #31
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    You may not be able to...a toilet bowl is like a teakettle with a spout. You can only fill it so full before water comes out of the spout. Take a bucket of water and SLOWLY pour it into the bowl. See if it goes any higher after it sets for say 5-minutes after you finish...that is the maximum it will hold by design. Nothing you can do about it but replace with something better. Now, if the bowl holds more water than your current fill valve is providing, make sure that the tank level is proper. If that's good, make sure that the hose is pointed properly into the overflow tube in the tank. If both of those are good, then you might need to chose the manufacturer's specified fill valve - some of them balance the fill volumes to match your toilet better.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  2. #32
    DIY Junior Member caplumb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Brass Replacement Valve Assembly for Rialto 3402

    http://www.cescobrass.com/Model16ak.cfm

    After reading many posts re: how to fix / replace fill valves of Kohler one piece toilets, I decided to try cescobrass replacement fill valves. Ordered them online, received within 10 days and installed them in 30 minutes flat. I am a novice at minor repair and a plumber quoted me $100 labor and $100 replacement Kohler fill valve. Cescobrass 16AK cost me $61 and 30 minutes of my time! The part is solid and replacement is easy. Instructions are clear.

    It might have been cheaper to buy various repair kits and try to repair the topcap of the fill valve but with 5 year warranty, I prefer the Scovill Model 16AK Ballcock for Kohler Toilets from CescoBrass. Just a satisfied customer!

  3. #33
    DIY Junior Member mprubin's Avatar
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    Default rialto tank seal may be bad

    Hi:

    I've kept four old rialtos going for 25 years using a mix of factory and aftermarket parts. Usually replacing top plunger along with new ballcock head piece will fix problem, plastic top piece seems to break within 2-3 years.

    But here is an issue that doesn't seem to be mentioned in thread. I was getting refill from fill valve every few minutes so figured there was a leak into the bowl. Tried a number of new flappers and no relief. seat of flapper fiting seemed fine. Here was the problem. The tank flapper assembly is sealed between tank and bowl with a large permanent rubber fitting. Mine seemed pretty degraded and I thought there might be some leakage through it. Kohler apparantly thought so too, because they made a refit kit with a completely new seal and flapper mount/overfill drain. Real pain to install. have to cut old seal out and clean up residue. The new seal is two piece, you work bottom piece through hole and then there are clamping screws to compress the new seal in place. However, the factory kit didn't work because it always leaked from tank to bowl no matter how I adjusted clamps. So I used silicone to glue top and bottom new seals as well as clamping them. Problem solved. No more leaks into bowl and refills stopped. I don't know if kit still available, but look at part diagrams and will probably find its number. The clamping bars are obvious in the diagram. With drying times, its a two day job so doubtfull plumber would try it. So if getting a slow leak, it may not actually be flapper but flapper mount seal. If it looks degraded, it may be leaking. Of course I still have everyone's problem with that ballcock. There is an aftermarket one now made by larsen and I am going to try one of the cesco brass ones as well.

  4. #34
    DIY Junior Member rvsarch's Avatar
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    Default Out to Pasture

    I finally retired my three Rialto toilets. I installed shut off valves with 1/2" diameter tubing up to the the fill valve as recommended in the installation instructions but they were never strong performers and it took a lot to keep them working for twenty years. I replaced them with Toto Willingham toilets. They have a strong flush and look great. My wife likes the shelf molded into the tank cover. I especially like the ADA height and elongated bowl.

  5. #35
    Engineer pwjone1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvsarch View Post
    I finally retired my three Rialto toilets. I installed shut off valves with 1/2" diameter tubing up to the the fill valve as recommended in the installation instructions but they were never strong performers and it took a lot to keep them working for twenty years. I replaced them with Toto Willingham toilets. They have a strong flush and look great. My wife likes the shelf molded into the tank cover. I especially like the ADA height and elongated bowl.
    The problem for me is the colors of the toilets that are installed in the house. 3 bathrooms, all Kohler K3402 (Round), all different colors. None seem to be in the current Kohler catalog of colors. Replacing the toilet would mean then doing the bathrooms over (new sinks, new bathtub, probably new tile, etc.). Not that I wouldn't mind a better flushing toilet, might be a tad more ecologically correct with a lower flow toilet (although in our area, water is pretty plentiful), but the drag-along cost of redoing the bathrooms is a bit on the prohibitive side.

    So I used the Kohler rebuild kit when the first toilet got into problems, that was expensive but worked well enough, 2nd. is having problems, about to do the same there. Mostly it seems that the rubber gasket at the bottom of the flush valve that gives out and leaks that causes me to do the rebuild, although I've done in the interim various flapper and fill valve plunger replacements, nothing too serious there. But the rubber at the bottom of the fill and flush valves eventually seems to give out, start to disintegrate. I also see some slight cracking in the plastic on the older fill valves, generally in the area around the where the screws attach the cap. I guess the plastic and rubber giving out after 20 years is not that big a deal.

    One thing that does strike me as a bit odd, is that the various Fluidmaster, Korky, etc., replacement fill valves don't have a Kohler one-piece model. They are cheap, look like they'd fit, but they just don't seem in current models to have a bowl refill attachment to fill the rim. Doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult. I know a previous appender used a 400A and a rubber stopper fed by the refill tube, but it's unclear to me if that would get the right amount of water into the bowl.

    I do notice that WDI (Axent) makes models where the amount can be controlled:

    http://www.wdiplumbing.com/en/pro_de...?pid=92&id=622



    But I couldn't find a U.S. supplier for any of the WDI fill valves. Reading through the forums, I guess they get used in some Toto models, and dimensionally it looks like they'd work in a Kohler, but apparently not an option. The unit looks like a Lavelle, and truth be told, I'd prefer for parts and other reasons to stay U.S. based, but for now it looks like I'm stuck with one of the older ballcock arrangements, from Kohler/Cesco/Lavelle/Plumb Pak.
    Paul Jones

  6. #36
    Engineer pwjone1's Avatar
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    I guess for the sake of completeness, for the K3402 Kohler toilet, here are some sources for replacement fill valves. Noting my research here, to maybe save some others some time. Mostly I'd still start with a trip to the local plumbing supply stores, their advice is generally quite valuable, but if you find the local suppliers don't have the parts, these are some sources.

    Here is the URL for the Kohler parts:

    http://www.kohlerserviceparts.kohler...19ef5b8a0c773c

    (you can click on the parts you need, which is kind of helpful)

    Kohler Rialto K3402 rebuild kit (84499) (I've given the Kohler URL, there are other suppliers, and this includes both flush and fill valves)

    Cesco Brass Scoville 16AK (all Brass/Copper fill valve)

    Homefixitparts.com Fill Valve (just the plastic fill valve, plus assorted hardware, less expensive)

    Larsen Supply 04-9163 (Plastic + Brass/Copper, from China)

    Ace Hardware Replacement Fill Valve (Plumb Pack/Plastic)

    Lowe's Plumb Pak varient (similar to the above)

    I will at least give credit to Kohler, they're still around, and for the most part, they still stock parts. I guess a lot griped about the cost and variety of parts, and the ECs Kohler has made over time. I cannot really knock a company for trying to improve its product, and if a company is in business long enough, there will be quite a few models over time. And at least Cesco has a replacement product out, might be better than the original (I suspect that the Kohler parts are, too). But it would have been nice if something more standard current practice, with leak limiters, like Fluidmaster or Korky or similar, had a model that would fit. But at least there are alternatives.
    Paul Jones

  7. #37
    DIY Junior Member DNSMD's Avatar
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    Default

    I have 2 of these toilets and the one upstairs was giving me real fits. Rebuilt the fill valve and replaced the flapper and adjusted everything as best I could but it always ran or failed to fully flush. I cleaned the holes under the rim and used vasaline on the flapper and replaced it several times as needed hard water conditions. I finally got fed up and replaced the fill valve with a Korky #528 Quietfill made in the US and it fits and adjusts to the proper water level (all the way down). I ran the overfill hose to the overfill drain had to buy longer hose but it now fills and shuts off and flushes completely! My only concern is the fact that there is no rim supply would it be ok to run the overfill hose to the rim rather than the overfill drain? Is this needed since the toilet seems to be working fine the way I have it set up, or am I asking for a future problem?

  8. #38
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Didn't realize Kohler separated the overflow and the rim feed. It shouldn't matter if you put the water there verses in the overflow...they both go into the bowl to eventually refill it. So, either place should be fine.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  9. #39
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote;
    * Fluidmaster
    * FillPro
    * Korky
    NONE of these have the rim flush provision that the Coast valve does, AND calling the FillPro a fill valve, for anything other than a decorative fountain or a horse waterer, is ridiculous. (AAnd since it is NOT an antisiphon valve it is NOT an approved device for a toilet tank)

  10. #40
    DIY Senior Member chefwong's Avatar
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    Here's hoping the Cesco is the winner...
    I just ordered one last night after the umpteenth time of buying a new flapper.

    I would change the toilet in a heartbeat to a Toto but when we redid this one....I did a navy cast iron tub, navy sink and navy toilet.....I wouldn't mind paying the premium for a Navy Toto if they made such a beast

  11. #41
    DIY Junior Member tombrock's Avatar
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    Default Low Cost fix

    You can buy a Fluidmaster Universal Adjustable Anti-Siphon Fill valve from Lowes for less than $8 and clip the new clear fill tube using the supplied white clip to the edge of the original large diameter bowl wash tube that you disconnect from the original valve and leave in the unit in the unit. Just make sure the new tube points into the old tube correctly to prevent back spray. This has worked very well for me. I can Email a picture of the installation if anyone wants one.

    Make sure the 3" flapper for the flush opening seals properly or the unit will leak into the bowl and cause the fill valve to cycle periodically. Many aftermarket flappers do not seal properly.

  12. #42
    DIY Junior Member deanalt's Avatar
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    Default Still problems

    Over the last 1.5 years, occasionally I would hear this toilet hissing again. I would try more vaseline and that would usually help for a couple of months (I was advised that vaseline is not a good longer term solution). Now it has come back again and apparently I put too much vaseline on and that made the flapper seal even worse, and the old siphoning noise and no shut off symptoms came back again. So, I took all the vaseline off and that helped although it is still hissing.

    I am confused in that, with the right amount of vaseline, the toilet works perfectly. You would think that means that the problem must be in how the flapper seals, right? As quickly as the tank fills up, unless that fit is really bad, you would think the noise would shut down for a few seconds, even if, after say 20 seconds, the bad seal would cause it to need to restart, wouldm't you. But it seems like it just does not shut off completely at all, sometimes.

    What can explain this? If i lift the arm that the float ball is attached to , that definitely stops all noise.

    Does anyone know if Kohler has finally found a good replacement manufacturer for this fill valve? Should I try another fill valve? Or maybe first, another flapper? Is the Korky flapper better than the Kohler one, perhaps?

    Thanks
    Dean

  13. #43
    Master Plumber Redwood's Avatar
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    There is no right amount of vaseline.

    Get a new flapper...

  14. #44
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Petrolium products and (most) rubber do NOT mix, and you'll ruin the rubber. If the seat where the flapper valve fits is not smooth and conforming to the flapper, it will leak. Defective flapper valves (those that don't have a nice even rim) can be caused by improper storage, or bad design, or poor quality control during manufacture. Now, it is possible that the whole assembly is not tight and it is leaking around the seal on the bottom. Often, though, if that is the case, it can leak onto the floor, but could just leak down the hole into the bowl.

    If the fill valve needs to run to refill the toilet, it must be leaking somewhere! Unless the fill valve is not shutting off and water is going out the overflow because the tank level is too high, it is almost always the flapper (in toilets with flappers, anyway). Excessive water pressure can cause some toilet fill valves to 'weep', or continue to run. But then, it would be eventually getting high enough to go out the overflow.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #45
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    from hj

    A new flapper and a 1B-1X fill valve makes them as good as new. The 1B-1X does not need the lower float. It uses a diversion valve to send a portion of the flow to the rim to assist with the flush. You cut the original plastic rim hose off and insert the smaller one from the 1B-1X into it.


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