Boy, do I need help

Cheers all,

Isn't living in the country wonderful??

Here's my sad tale. Water quit pumping. Former owner did not put any kind of covering over electronic components for well. I looked at what I think everyone is calling the control box. It contains a black box sealed relay, a metal cap and a black paper covered cap. I listened and the relay hums for about 15 seconds and stops for about 5 seconds and then repeats the process over and over. It is getting hot. I took voltage reading on the black cap, which I assume is the start cap, and it changes from 112v to 124v. The pressure guage on the standup tank reads less than zero. Well is about 10-15 years old. My skills are I can read a multimeter fairly well and I am moderately mechanically inclined. I am very unfamiliar with a well and am a little bit intimidated with it. I know this is pretty vague but it is all I know. Any trouble shooting procedures would be helpful. Control box has small black wire, small white wire, 2 big yellow wires and 1 big yellow wire with black tracer. Says Red Jacket Pumps on the control box.

HELP ME!!!!!!

Traveling Man

The control box should have two wires + ground to the box from the circuit breaker through the pressure switch, and 3 wires + ground from the control box to the pump. Links to some Red Jacket Manuals below.

Your list of wires suggests a system with no ground wires.

http://www.redjacketwaterproducts.com/pdf/BRJCONTRO.pdf

http://www.redjacketwaterproducts.com/pdf/RJSINGLE.pdf

http://www.redjacketwaterproducts.com/pdf/IM116R00.pdf

There should be something to say how many horsepower it is.

In some control boxes you can pull the control panel and leave the terminals in place. Do that to make the following measurements if it is possible.

Verify that the circuit breaker is in fact 230 volts and that both poles are ON.

It is possible that you have a 115 Volt pump, but that would be unusual.

Verify that the pressure switch is on and delivering 230 Volts to the control
box.

The wire colors to the pump don't match the usual, so label them A, B, C for purposes of measurement and reporting.

Measure the resistance of A to B, A to C, and B to C. From the measurements you should be able to determine what motor you have. There is a table in the document at the third link. You will have to adjust for wire length and size to get the resistance of the motor windings. Tell us the wire size and length to pump if you know it.

Measure the resistance between the windings and ground. It should be high resistance.

Tell us if what you have matches anything in the manuals what you will find at the links.

Others will probably have more suggestions.

Thanks a bunch Bob.

Here's what I have so far. It is a 3/4 HP 230V. Panel #75N1-CBP.

Control Box Terminals

L2- Lge- Lge Red- Lge- L1
Blk- Yel- & Yel- Yel- Wht

On 118V 118V 109V 118V 118V
Off 110 V 110V 123V 110V 110V

I can separate the circuit board and the terminals, however it will have to wait till tomorrow because it is dark here now. I will take resistance measurements on these terminals. The problem I have is wires are buried and are just sticking out of the ground in a haphazard manner. Plus I have no idea of how a well is laid out. I see a stand alone box with a relay with 2 large sets of contacts. I see the pressure gauge for the tank. I see something like a wall light switch with a wire going and coming from it. I think a gypsy with the low bid put in this well. Again thanks for your help Bob.

Traveling Man

The procedure for checking out the control box is on page 26 of the pdf file at the third link. The page number of the document is page 22.

The first link shows a control box S75N1CB. I suspect that is probably a new version of yours.

Winding resistances from pg 36 of pdf and 32 of document are:
Main 2.9 - 3.2, Start 7.3 - 8.1, Both 10.2 - 11.3 Ohms.

The wire colors don't match yours.

I don't understand the wire designations you have listed. Please identify as follows:

Wires from pressure switch to control box. Identify each wire and color.

Wires from control box to the pump. Identify each wire and color and corresponding identification and marking of A B and C per previous post.

Have you measured across both leads from the breaker? I only see one phase in your readings. You should be seeing around 230 volts.

bob...

Here is the latest checks and results I have got. I have figured out the 3 large wires in the control box go to the pump. 2 yellows and a yellow with red tracer. a-b ll.4 ohms. a-c 3.8 ohms. b-c 8.4 ohms. These are terminals 2, 3, and 4 in the control box. Terminal 1 is a black wire marked L1. Terminal 5 is a white wire marked L2. I get 238 VAC measuring across these 2 terminals. These 2 wires go back to a box marked Pumptrol and there are 4 contacts in this box which remain closed and never open. The contact are not burned and the springs on them work. Opening and closing them by hand turns off the AC to the control box. I'm guessing this is what you call the pressure switch as it is connected along with a pressure gauge that is inserted in the metal pipe that goes to the storage tank. What ever causes the contacts to open and close is not doing it's job. Is this info helpful for you to assist me more?

Traveling Man

What causes those contacts to open is PRESSURE, and you apparently don't have any pressure, so they will stay closed because they are calling for the pump to run. They will open when the pressure rises to the shutoff pressure.

Your windings all look good. The resistance you are measuring is the winding plus the wire.
A-C is the main winding.
B-C is the start winding.
C is the terminal common to both windings.

Make sure those wires stay marked.

Your problem is almost certainly the control box, but you still haven't reported the resistance from windings to ground. Check A or B or C to ground somewhere. If there is no ground wire to the pump, then just check to a ground terminal in your wiring system, or check to any NEUTRAL wire in your house wiring. You should measure something more than 100,000 ohms, hopefully much more.

You need to decide if you are going to try to repair the control box, or replace it. You could try the capacitors first. You need to match the VOLTAGE, MicroFarads, AND the TYPE of capacitor. You can't just pick up any old electrolytic at Radio Shack. You need a capacitor for AC motor starting.

You may not need the same brand box that you have, but you need to match the motor HP AND the motor type. Safest is to get the same model.

If it were mine, I would probably try to fix the box. Maybe Speedbump can tell you where to get capacitors.

By the way, there is often a RESET button in the control box, sometimes mounted where it can be pushed from the outside. If you haven't pushed that button, try it.

Sometimes there is a lightning arrestor on the circuit. If it got hit by lightning, it will be wrecked (usually shorted) and it will cause the breaker to trip. It is probably a ceramic device with two wires, sometimes hanging from the box. You can REMOVE it and the motor might run if that is the cause of failure. If it isn't there, don't worry.

Measuring a b & c to ground all read 250K or more. Run cap is 10 mfd @440 vac. Start cap is 7 mfd ??? @ 330 vac. I can make all value out except the mfd for the start cap. Does 7 mfd sound about right? Pulled all components off circuit board. Run cap seems to check ok. Start cap checks just a little funny. I will replace the start up cap first since they all plug in. Can anyone help me on the value of the start cap? Found some instructions with control box, unfortunately they have faded from weather. I really appreciate help from all.

If you have an analog meter, you can check a start and run cap on the X1K scale. First short out the two terminals with a screw driver to discharge it. Then put one lead on one terminal, then the other lead on the other terminal. The meter should jump to the far right with the start cap and slowly drift back to almost infinity. With the run cap, same thing except it won't deflect as far right. Then change polarity and do again. The same should happen each time you reverse polarity. If the needle does not move or stays to the right, the cap is definately bad.

The better than 250K readings to the motor may be your problem. I have seen motors with this low of a reading, but very few. A motor that can stay in the ground should read more than 500K. A new motor better than 200 megohm.

So, it's starting to look like your motor is toast.

bob...

I changed the start capacitor and all is well so far. All systems seem to be functioning. I want to give a special thanks to Bob and Speedbump for all your help. Not only did I make the repair myself I more understand the basic workings of my system. I can troubleshoot problems in the future with more confidence. You two guys are great for sharing your knowledge for free.

Traveling Man
Gary Dry

Check Grainger for Run capacitors. I think they have what you need for less than $6.