Bio Additives/Enzymes for Septic Tanks

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Mike50

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speedbump said:
The pumper guy said a lot of the problem was using Charmin. He said Charmin and a few other papers don't break down like the cheaper brands. He said never put towlets, paper towels etc. in the tank...


bob...

Well thats interesting but conflicts with information garnered from several professional sources. One happens to tout the "Charmin *Plus*" as one of the more desirable brands. They are all biodegradable is my understanding.
So..I guess the jury is still out and there are variables involved as well.

Kleenex and baby wipes are also proven to be detrimental I believe.
Maybe someone else will weigh in.

Cass said:
If you have the $$ a larger tank is better. It will give you more time between pumpings.

You betcha. My estimate was done yesterday and much to my surprise
the price break from 750 to 1000 or from 1000 to 1250 is really Cheap.
In my case I'm trading up to the Concrete (with rebar) 1000 from my current 750 metal and the price difference is 80 dollars. Go figure.

I'll blog the progress of this for anyone reading who might be thinking of
getting a replacement tank.

Is concrete expensive? relatively yes. But my thinking is this: Why not do this once and for all in the 2-4K range as opposed to 20 years from now when maybe it could cost 20 grand (concrete) for example. Do any of us know for sure what kind of financial shape we will be in 20 years from now-not really. Stuff happens. This is my thinking.
It's doable now....
The Leach field is another story and unknowable until they dig or your system gets fried.
By the time this system fails (If it ever does)--no doubt we will probably be on a city sewer line after the Yuppies invade. heh.

Another think I've learned is that not all concrete tanks are created equal.
Some are not made with Rebar.

In the coming week(s) I expect the county guys out here with cans of orange spray paint letting us know where we can/can't dig. That's where we are now.

M.
 
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Mike50

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I do have a dumb question. When ever I hear about Leachfields that have "gone south" I hear figures like 6-7 thousand thrown around to repair them---where do these numbers come from...?

Those are big numbers.
 

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abikerboy said:
When they "repaired" mine, the repair meant that they dug up my back yard and put in a completely new drainfield. Mine cost me $7000 for two reasons. First was the new drainfield has 12 lines that are 100 feet long each. Second reason, the ground wouldnt pass a perk test, so they dug out a huge bed, filed it with gravel and sand, and laid the new lines on top of this, and then backfilled with top soil. Seems kinda overkill to me though, this is the way that the health dept said it had to be done. Not much I could do about it, so no sweat!
Rob

Yowsa. 100 feet. I had no idea. The health dept. regulations/enforcement are becoming all to apparent. In my case this lot is in fact all coarse sand, small rock. It's a challenge to keep any soil moist for long here for gardening purposes. I'll go so far as to say that for 9 months out of the year-Nothing stays wet here for very long at all. Last summer we had one day where the mercury hit 124.

That being said we Do have excessive hard water/mineral deposit issues.

I was told they will find out status of my Leach field when the new tank is installed. All I can do is hope for the best at this juncture.
 
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Mike50

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small publisher direct:
http://www.shelterpub.com/

Answer to original question from one source:
(edited)

Septic system additives, especially enzymes:

"You don't need to add enzymes; they're naturally present in the sewage. Beware of telemarketers or ads hawking additives claiming to avoid tank pumping.
They actually break down the scum and sludge into small particles, which are then readily flushed out into the drainfield,increasing possibility of premature drainfield failure."

*The Septic System Owners Manual* (Kahn) chapter 4. down the drain
 
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vaplumber

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Mike50 said:
http://www.shelterpub.com/

Answer to original question from one source:
(edited)

Septic system additives, especially enzymes:

"You don't need to add enzymes; they're naturally present in the sewage. Beware of telemarketers or ads hawking additives claiming to avoid tank pumping.
They actually break down the scum and sludge into small particles, which are then readily flushed out into the drainfield,increasing possibility of premature drainfield failure."

*The Septic System Owners Manual* (Kahn) chapter 4. down the drain

This is my belief too. Im not saying that they dont help. Ive just never saw any evidence that they do.
 
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vaplumber

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Mike50 said:
Thanks. I will mention the tail piece extension. I have a 750 gallon tank now, and I wondering if I should upgrade to a 1000 gallon + or...? Are you familiar with
the price breaks? I live on an acre so space isn't an issue here.

M.
I would go to a 1000 or possibly a 1250. There is no use going any larger and in fact larger could cause other issues like sludge piling. Here in Virginia there is very little pricing dif between the sizes. Some of the contractors are using plastic or fibreglass tanks now but I would not recomend them. Some makers tell you that when pumping the tank that you must fill the empty tank with water to avoid a collapse.
 
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vaplumber

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Mike50 said:
Yowsa. 100 feet. I had no idea. The health dept. regulations/enforcement are becoming all to apparent. In my case this lot is in fact all coarse sand, small rock. It's a challenge to keep any soil moist for long here for gardening purposes. I'll go so far as to say that for 9 months out of the year-Nothing stays wet here for very long at all. Last summer we had one day where the mercury hit 124.

That being said we Do have excessive hard water/mineral deposit issues.

I was told they will find out status of my Leach field when the new tank is installed. All I can do is hope for the best at this juncture.

If you use a water softener I might suggest draining your backwash line into a seperate drywell. The backwash is mostly salt brine and salt is hard on concrete. I havent saw much actual tank damage here from water softeners, but 9 out of 10 homes that I have worked on with water softeners I have found the cement distributor boxes crumbled and cracked.
 
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vaplumber

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A story that I shall tell for amusement; Back when I was still doing some sewer and septic work I was called out to unclog a line. We ran the length of the line, and located the tank. When we dug up the tank it was so full that the water had pushed the lids up and was bubbling out as we dug. We pumped down the tank and had some slight backflow from the drainfield so we set or sights on exploring the drainfield. There were no records or diagrams recorded that we could use so we ran the line again and followed it to the drainfield location. We also discovered a delapitated line and decided to replace the entire line hoping that would be our fix. As we dug into the drainfield, we discovered the drainfield was only an old VW bug burried in the ground with the line run through a broken window and the old car had filled up with sludge, mud and obvious past cave ins that had been backfilled and leveled out over the years! It still amazed me to this day that there were no wet spots in the yard above the drainfield/car!
 

Mike50

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LOL.
I heard a similar story involving an old cadillac. We dont hear them often because it's obviously illegal certainly by todays standards.

Hey...when you are in an unfortunate situation in life but own your land....gotta do what ya gotta do.

That's good old fashioned American ingenuity.

Think about it:
It's a hot summer day--all your drains and toilets are backed up.
You don't have two nickels to rub together--but you do have a rusty 73 Camaro up on blocks in the back yard and your crazy uncle Jerry has a back hoe....

:)
 

Cass

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I wonder whats realy under the ground at Cadillac Ranch?
 

auntyzoom

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septic "system"

Couldn't help but jump in here... so to speak -

I used to have a place in Rosarito, Baja CA, & needed to install a system. There, forget about anything resembling "code" - ya just shoot yer best shot at whatever it is you're doing. Anyway, I had a bunch of workers come over & dig me a big hole into which was put a "tank" made of culvert - apx 3' x 4' & enclosed on each end & 1 end of which had a 4-5' 'inspection hole w/lid, which wound up being attached to the drain line from the toilet - only.

Punched a bunch of holes on all sides/bottom, stuck short lengths of 2" drain pipe horizontally out of most of them, then placed a layer of rocks on the hole bottom & then around all sides of the tank, once it was placed in the hole. Your basic, all-in-one "system" - the mother of invention at work!

The guys thought I was nuts! But that "system" has worked perfectly for over 10 years! Of course, there being only 2 in the house, and only the toilet contributing to the contents may have helped. In Mexico, cesspools are the norm...I've no idea how often, if ever, anyone pumps them out....maybe they just dig new ones?

Where I live in very rural CA, have a septic sys. that works perfectly (just me & again, only the toilet - everything else is grey water in various forms).

However, in the bathroom there's a notice for guests:

POTTY RULES

Put nothing in this toilet that you haven't eaten first!

- - - -
BTW, another good read on this subject is, "Septic Tank Practices" & sorry I don't recall the author.

Interesting subject...

Susy
 

auntyzoom

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Yeah, cigarette butts & a slew of other, even more amazing donations! Incredible how some folks view their disposal options... thinking of it as a bottomless pit. Outta sight, outta mind, right? :(

For anyone interested in poly tanks - septic or otherwise - check out

http://www.loomistank.com

I think there's links to other tank resources on that site, too. Loomis is located in Paso Robles, CA. I got my H20 tank there. Try Googling "water storage tanks" for more...

Might be mistaken, but I think there are even above ground poly septic tanks available - although hard to imagine why one would want that! But there might be a reason for just about everything, ya think?

Thanks for reminding me that I should read ALL the posts before opening the mouth!

Susy
 

Mike50

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abikerboy said:
Vaplumber (paul) has a post above about plastic and fiberglass tanks. This is all new to me. Never heard of such a thing as a plastic or fiberglass tank before. Paul has owned his own shop since 1971, and before that, he has worked for several local plumbers and contractors. He is known for his honesty and experience, so I trust what he says. He has helped many of the older and poor folks in this area out as a favor at no cost, so I know that he is not out to just make a buck! One thing that nobody has mentioned that is bad on a septic is cigarette butts! Neighbor had problems with his septic and had a contractor out to fix it. Contractor was able to clean the system with no expensive repairs. He pulled what looked like a cotton ball off of the end of the outlet pipe. This thing was the size of a basketball!!! I was there, and saw this with my own eyes! First remark he made was "cigarette filters! Most destructive force around for a septic tank!" I put only my own waste down my tank, plus toilet paper and nothing else! Going by what my servicer says, the John Wayne toilet papers are the best. He says avoid anything that says quilted, extra soft, or medicated. He also says to avoid colored or scented paper, as the chemicals in them can be harmful to a septic system!.
Rob

Another thing no one mentioned is Liquid vs. Powder laundry detergent.
I've been told to only use liquid.

Also according to TSSOM (Lloyd Kahn) the lint from washing machines is a huge contributor to system failure. Polyester fibers being much worse than natural cotton fibers. Solution? Well there is one product called the "septicprotector" and it's essentially a reusable 160 micron filter which is emptied every few weeks.

I actually had the pleasure of speaking with Mr. Kahn yesterday as I was ordering a product and invited him to this forum so maybe he is lurking.


A couple of interesting factoids is that about 25% are on septic tanks systems. If designed correctly our soil will neutralize all the pathogens that are unhealthy to humans before they reach groundwater.
I think there is a negative connotation about septic tanks and maybe for no good reason.
Looking at the big picture however, putting big chunks of plastic in the ground is probably not too good for us.
 
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vaplumber

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Liquid detergents are the best. Use non phospherous only. Dont over use bleach. Dont dump grease down. No cigarette butts as mentioned. Use a lint filter on your washing machine outlet. Best rule of thumb, only human waste and toilet paper. Make sure toilet paper package says septic system safe. Avoid drain cleaners and enzymes. The yeast joke as explained to me years ago, yeast is onle beneficial in a brand new system. If you have had your system cleaned, pumped or repaired enough bacteria will remain on the surface to re establish itself within 4 hours. In a brand new unused system the yeast will feed on waste and as the yeast micro organisms die they will attract and nurish the natural bacteria. Also open up your distributor box or boxes every third pumping of your tank and have the boxes sucked and inspected. The first sign of a problem will show up in the d-boxes
 

Got_Nailed

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The only time it is good to use additives in your tank is if your going out of town for more than a week or if you need to add to your bio load do to more people moving in with you. The first 3 months of owning a house or after a pumping would be good times for additives.
 

Mike50

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I've read something similar but I still want to see the research on that.
I also read that the only time that adding yeast would be beneficial is to a brand new tank. (??)

My rule of thumb is still the "eat it first" rule in my little world.


I'm also learning that there is no shortage of DIY lore,legend and wives tales connected to this subject. Let the buyer beware.
 
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Mike50

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Shameless plug for a small publisher: Earlier in the thread you can order the book I spoke about.

When ordering direct you also get a very nice bonus:
A separate Maintainance folder for all your septic records. Every inch of the folder inside and out is covered all the professional advice posted here in the last couple weeks complete with drawings/diagrams.
It even features a nice Grid pattern for you or your pumper to diagram exactly where your tank is in relation to your home/lot.
 
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