Well Pump Problem

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Dman1970

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I have a shallow well with a 1hp GE above ground pump. The first time I noticed a problem, the pump would try to start and then click off. A day later, the pump began working and worked fine for about two weeks and then the problem resurfaced. When the power was turned on, the pump would try to start, but would not put out any water. The pump also got extremely hot. Upon removing the end-cover, there were some ants and a little sand. After disconnecting the motor and cleaning it out, I primed the pump and the pump began working again. A couple of days later, the pump was still working, but the motor got extremely hot and I actually saw smoke coming from the motor after less than a minute of running, but was pumping water at a normal rate and did not make any noises. The shaft turns freely. At this point the pump puts out water, but heats up to the point where you could fry and egg on the motor casing. White smoke also begins to come from the pump. I also noticed a very small amount of oil (a large drip) inside the cap.
 
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Jadnashua

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Make sure the voltage to the motor is within the specs when it is running. If the relay contacts are burned a little, sometimes the relay will not supply the proper voltage and this will cause the pump to overheat, if it runs at all. If you want th epump to last, figure out why it is getting so hot, or you will be buying a new one.
 

Abikerboy

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Dman1970 said:
IAfter disconnecting the motor and cleaning it out, I primed the pump and the pump began working again. A couple of days later, the pump was still working, but the motor got extremely hot and I actually saw smoke coming from the motor after less than a minute of running, but was pumping water at a normal rate and did not make any noises.

Finally, something that I can actually help someone with! Lol! I am not a plumber, but I have had some electrical tech classes! :) Your above ground pump uses a standard induction motor...may be either 110 volt, or 220 volt. Easiest way to tell is by observing the breaker which turns it off. A single breaker is 110 volt, while a 220 breaker will actually be two breakers with the toggles tied together by a lug, so when one swithches off, it switches off both lugs. (this info just in case you end up buying a motor) On top of your motor is a sort of half round cap held on by either one, or two, small screws, depending on how old the motor is. Inside of the motor, at the end of the rotor, (or armature,... the part that turns when the motor runs) is a centrifugal switch. The motor contains a start winding, which the switch deactivates as soon as the motor reaches its operating speed, usually in less than one second. The motor has to have this start winding so that it will start under a load, such as the water pressure in your pump. Take the end cap off of your motor, (usually the back end) and make sure that these weights and springs are moving freely. It is possible that these weights are sticking, maybe gunked up by the ants, or the switch that these weights activate is stuck in the "on" position, and your starting winding is staying energized. This winding is only designed to be in use for under one second, and the smoke you see, and the oil or greasy substance you found is probably the varnish insulation that has overheated and dripped from the windings. Also, when this varnish gets hot enough to liquify and drip, it is very flamable, with the vapors and smoke being almost like gasoline, so if you do not fix this, you may have a lot more to worry about than the pump. It may be possible that the windings are already so shot that you cannot save the motor, but even if you do have to replace the motor, that is usually cheaper than a pump. Check around on the prices to be sure. Just dont buy the cheapest motor that you can find. Some of the cheaper motors do not use a start winding, but instead use a second capacitor to start the motor. This works very well when the motor is new, but as the years pass, and the insulation on the windings gets weak, the cheaper motor will let you down by not developing enough torque to start. Good luck, but please dont wait to fix this. This "smoking motor" is a time bomb. Switched on a drill press one time with a bad winding. Ran about 45 seconds, and the motor burst into flames.
Rob
 

Dman1970

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I did check the voltage which seems fine and I also replaced the capacitor. I will check what you said as well Rob. Really appreciate it and I will keep you posted.
 

Dman1970

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When I removed the cap, I made sure that the contacts and springs were functioning. I looked into the slot and noticed that there was a metal piece that was very loose and resting at an awkward angle. I removed the entire electrical cap and looked inside. On the shaft, there was a black plastic piece that had cracked. There are two metal pieces held together by springs that kind of match up to grooves on the black piece. There is also a separate, round brown plastic part that fits over the black piece and the black piece fits into the groove on the brown piece. (One of the springs has stretched.) Any idea what this black piece is called? Starter switch?
 

Abikerboy

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Dman1970 said:
When I removed the cap, I made sure that the contacts and springs were functioning. I looked into the slot and noticed that there was a metal piece that was very loose and resting at an awkward angle. I removed the entire electrical cap and looked inside. On the shaft, there was a black plastic piece that had cracked. There are two metal pieces held together by springs that kind of match up to grooves on the black piece. There is also a separate, round brown plastic part that fits over the black piece and the black piece fits into the groove on the brown piece. (One of the springs has stretched.) Any idea what this black piece is called? Starter switch?

The black piece on the shaft is the part that activates the switch. The switch is mounted to the part of the motor that does not rotate, and has several electrical connections. The loose part and the springs are the fly weights. When the motor comes up to speed, these weights sling outwards, pushing the black piece up, making contact with the switch and breaking the circuit to the start windings. Find your data plate, or label, on the motor, and take the model number, serial number, name of manufacturer, and horsepower rating to someone who does motor repairs. I would replace the switch itself, the weights, the springs, and the black plastic collar. The parts are not very expensive, probably not more that $30 for everything, and even if he has to order them, you should have them in about a day. If they ask to see the old parts so they can match them, be sure to mark how everything came apart, and mark where each wire connects to the switch. By the way, when you put the new parts in, do not oil or grease any of the weights or springs. Clean everything up really well, and use some type of non conductive anti sieze, or powdered lubricant on the weights and springs. Keep me posted as to how everything goes. It is not a hard repair, but does take patience.
Rob
 

Dman1970

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I went to a local repair shop and they called it a governor. It came as a full assembly with the springs, weights, etc... I took the old parts off and this new piece just slide onto the shaft. I am not sure if it needs to be aligned in any particular manner, but I put everything back together and the pump runs. No white smoke now, but the engine is still running pretty hot and even cut itself off, which it was not doing before. Still feel like there is something wrong in there and I am not sure if some damage was done during this process with all the heating up or not. Gives off a burning smell, but no smoke.
 

Abikerboy

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Dman1970 said:
I went to a local repair shop and they called it a governor. It came as a full assembly with the springs, weights, etc... I took the old parts off and this new piece just slide onto the shaft. I am not sure if it needs to be aligned in any particular manner, but I put everything back together and the pump runs. No white smoke now, but the engine is still running pretty hot and even cut itself off, which it was not doing before. Still feel like there is something wrong in there and I am not sure if some damage was done during this process with all the heating up or not. Gives off a burning smell, but no smoke.

Sounds like it may have fried a winding from the overheating. No, nothing has to be aligned in any certain way. Luckily yours came as one whole piece. Most of the ones that I have been involved in come as a small package of individual parts and springs. Also check the front part of the motor to make sure that the vents are open, and the small fan wheel that cools the motor is in decent shape. Maybe blow through the vents with compressed air. If all is well there, you'll probably end up buying a new motor. At least without the smoke, you may be a little safer for a day or two. Keep me posted, and if you need to know more, Im here. Glad to help as much as I can.
Rob
 
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Dman1970

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Just out of curiousity, how warm should the pump be to the touch after running for a few minutes? I turned on the pump today and didn't notice the burning smell quite as badly even after running it for several minutes. Water pressure is real good and water is coming out cool. The motor casing is pretty hot to the touch, but I am not real sure what is normal. When I removed the end-cap, I notice that the shaft is burning hot-seems much hotter that it should be, but I am not sure if this is what would happen if the motor is shot. (I also noticed that there is regular string on the copper coils inside, is that normal? It has been singed from the heat of the coils which also has me a little concerned.)
 
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Abikerboy

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Dman1970 said:
Just out of curiousity, how warm should the pump be to the touch after running for a few minutes? I turned on the pump today and didn't notice the burning smell quite as badly even after running it for several minutes. Water pressure is real good and water is coming out cool. The motor casing is pretty hot to the touch, but I am not real sure what is normal. When I removed the end-cap, I notice that the shaft is burning hot-seems much hotter that it should be, but I am not sure if this is what would happen if the motor is shot. (I also noticed that there is regular string on the copper coils inside, is that normal? It has been singed from the heat of the coils which also has me a little concerned.)

After a few minutes of running, a 1 horsepower motor would probably be uncomfortable to the touch, yet still should not be so hot that you cannot keep your hand on it. The shaft and rotor inside will get quite a bit hotter for two reasons, the friction from the bearings or bushings in the end caps, and also because of the induced electrical charge passing through the core. Speaking of bushings and bearings, those you should oil. Use something like 30 weight engine oil, and just a few drops. However, dont let the oil get onto the flyweights or starting switch. The strings inside are used to hold the copper windings together when they make the motor. Usually the string will rot away after a few years anyway. Keep an eye on your pump for a few days and see how it goes. It is possible that what you smell is from where it was burning before, and is only residual. If the smell is getting weaker, instead of stronger with use, that is a good sign.
 

Speedbump

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Once you let the smoke out of a motor, you cannot put it back in. Motors get hot to the touch, but smoke should not be seen. The singed string means the windings were hot enough to burn the string and the motor is on it's way out.

The smoke you saw could have been from the start capacitor or the windings, when a start cap goes, oil comes out of the end and gets on the end bell etc.

Chances are, you were too late on your repair.

Next, I would see what caused the motor to go bad. Waterlogged tank maybe?

bob...
 

Abikerboy

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Actually, now I have a silly question. On my earlier post concerning pulling a pump, we have that job finished up, and all is well. I brought the old submersible pump home with me simply because I am curious as to how they are built. I removed the motor from the pump today, and connected it to the 220 plug on my generator. The motor is fine, and started and ran instantly. Then I got curious, and disassembled the motor to se how it was built, and sealed up. When I removed the end caps, the actual motor housing is full of water, and there appears to be no sealing system at all on the bearings to keep the water out. The windings appear to be cast into, or sealed within the construction of the motor case, not visible, and sealed from the moisture. My question, are these motors really designed to allow water inside? Or could this be the malfunction that caused the pump to fail? The motor appears to be in good shape, and to run well. The shaft and the splines are in perfect shape. Would this thing be worth putting back together and hanging onto as a spare?
 

Speedbump

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Franklin motors are water cooled and lubricated. This is normal. Some motors have a form of antifreeze in them when they come from the factory to keep them from freezing initially while on the truck.

I wouldn't hang on to any used motor. The labor to pull and replace one is too much to take a chance on a motor that will probably fail soon.

bob...
 
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