HELP, have a screw floating around in tub pipe, which is damaging the cartridge.

For the past few months I've been replacing my Moen cartridge in my bath tub. Every couple of months, not only would the be a small leak, but I couldn't turn off the water.This is one of those push and pull type of handles (counter clockwise is hot and clockwise is cold). I couln't push the handle back in to turn the water off unless I turned it off at the main, then I could press the handle in and turn it off. I've replaced the cartridge 5 times.

Today I decided to do a thorough investigation. I noticed that on the back part of the cartridge there were some wear marks as if if something was rubbing against it. In the past I pulled the cartridge and flushed the water hoping something would dislodge. I tried it again today and low and behold I noticed a screw with its pointy end sticking out on the left side (hot water side?) of the pipe when I pulled out the cartridge I guess the head was too big to fit through the pipe hole. I believe this is rubbing agains the cartridge and wearing it downa and preventing me from turning the water off. If I pull the backplate off, I can see a cross pattern of the pipe. I believe the top goes to the shower, the left is where the hot water comes in, the right is where cold water comes in and the bottom is where the water comes down into the faucet? So I tried pulling it out with a big pair of tweezers to no avail. In fact, the screw went back in. I flushed the water again and the pointy end of the screw was visible again. I tried again and the screw went back in the pipe. I flushed one last time and the screw never came back up again. I know it's in the pipe and will eventually point out again and cause damage to the cartridge.

I have a one piece full size plastic tub (the kind that has the walls built in with the tub. I was wondering if there was something I could do before I called a plumber. I'd like to suck it out with a vacuum cleaner or something from downstairs, but I don't think it's feasible. I was hoping to get suggestions from board memebers. If I did call a plumber, do you think he would have to rip the whole tub out? My only concern is that if he did come out, what if the screw went back down and came back up after he left? This might get costly and was hoping to try something before I went the plumber route. Any input is appreciated. Thank you.

screw

Somehow you have to cut the pipe before it reaches the valve, then backflush through the valve to wash the screw out of the pipe. If it is not there because it has fallen down the pipe, then you have to flush the other side to push the screw out.

Do you think I can back flush w/o cutting? What if I turned off the water to the water heater, disconnected the hot hose from the water heater, capped off the shower and faucet and turned on the valve? Then the cold water would have no where to go but through the hot water side then this hypothetically should create a backflush and expell the screw (unless it get caught somewhere else), no? Thanks

I think it is hard to say if your backflush through the hot water pipe will work or not, but I would think it is worth a try. In the past, when I was doing plumbing work on a hot water line that I had finished draining, and was "nice" to my family and left cold water on in the kitchen (which I can do the way I have valves set up in the basement), I have had people turn the kitchen faucet on on me and leave the handle in the mid-way position for warm water. I got showered in the basement, so if the hot line is depressurized and you turn the cold water on with these kinds of valves, water will certainly go down the hot line! Whether it will be enough to flush the screw is anybody's guess. Probably depends on whether the run is all downhill, or whether it makes any upturns. If so, it'll probably take a good bit of flow. I'd have a big bucket! Probably better would be if you could connect a hose to outside or a sump. I'd discharge through some sort of screen or collander to see if you get the screw too.

The main reason I'm posting back is just to give you the following suggestion. My experience with Moen products is a bad news, good news situation. I have had lots of problems with Moen products and generally feel they are of poor quality. I won't buy them when putting in new faucets myself. However, I have to give Moen credit for standing behind their products. I don't know how old your faucet is, but I would bet money that if you called Moen and told them about the screw breaking off from it and lodging in the pipe (I'm assuming the screw is from the valve and not foreign from someplace else) they would send you a new faucet. Not that that would help you much since you don't want to rip anything out, but I just thought I'd mention that they do stand behind their products. They might have helped you out with the cartridges also.

Thanks for the tip and advice. I did the procedure today and sure was a pain in the butt. I noticed that there are at leat a couple of 90 degree turns going up. Capped off everything and turn the water on. Screw never came out. I'm hoping I sent if far down that it won't come back up. I replaced the cartridge in the valve and everything seems to be working. Only time will tell when/if the cartridge gets worn out again. Thank you

screw

If it got there once it will probably come back, but maybe the next time the head will be against the valve instead of the point, unless it is too long to turn around in the pipe. When you backflushed, where would you expect the screw to come out? It is probably too large to come through any of your faucets, although that may be where it came from originally.

Well, I disconnected the hotside of the water heater and attached a garden hose to the copper pipe (the one that attaches to the water heater). I was hoping that it would come out through the garden hose. It appears that there were too many up and down 90 degree turns (atleast 3). Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks

You could put a Y-strainer in the line in an accessible location as near as possible to the tub valve. The Grainger 6KK28 costs $10.48 in 1/2" FPT brass. It has a 1/4" blowdown fitting, to which you could connect a ball valve. You would want to put it somewhere that you could be confident the screw can be backflushed to. The strainer would catch the screw on the way to the tub valve and you could flush the strainer if it gets obstructed.

moen faucet

this is probably a stupid question, but here goes...

why cant you jsut take the crtridge outof the faucet,

put the trim sleeve back on, and then turn the water on full blast??

do this a couple of times and

the water would blast into the shower or tub and intheory blow out the screw??


as long as it is the water is contained to the tub, it would work>>

yes --no???