What else do you want to know about Kinetico, other than that they are overpriced and overhyped?
I need a new water softener. Just wondered if anyone could help me out. I want either Kinetico Mach 2060 seriers or whirlpool (LOWE's) .I wonder if you are better to go cheap or pay ALOT more from start. Are the ones you can get from Lowe's ok?? Or are they not worth buying?? Have you heard anything bad about Kinetico?? Thanks for any help
What else do you want to know about Kinetico, other than that they are overpriced and overhyped?
Kenectico is not junk but their are not many
that want to wrok on them
STAY away from LOWES and whatever that they sell....
the Whirlpools are junk and are basically throw away units
(after 3-5 years)
If you want something to last a while
check out an Autotrol type or a Fleck
The Whirlpool, GE, North Star, Morton Salt and Kenmore softeners are basically all the same. They have interchangeable parts except the GE uses a different motor. That's because they are all built by the same company, Ecowater. Ecowater dealers have the same style control valve but better electronics; meaning more features. The big box store brands last 2-6 years in average without needing service and finding someone to work on them is difficult. And their repair parts prices are fairly high.
Kinetico has some good equipment but it is proprietary, meaning only those dealers can get parts for them. The Kinetico brand is only on their twin tank immediate regenerated models. Some of them are upflow service and require a prefilter because of that and their centuries old water powered control valve and all its teeny tiny gears. That prefilter increases the cost and pressure loss.
Upflow service means there is no backwash being done during regeneration. Kinetico sells their low salt use but doesn't mention the many more regenerations the smaller tanks require. In many cases more regenerations mean more total water and salt use than regular softeners use.
Another thing, the smaller models use packed bed tanks and you get water through both tanks until one tank goes into regeneration, which can be very soon after the last regeneration (every 45 minutes) and then, you don't get the same flow rate from the softener because you only get water out of one of the quite small tanks. That causes much higher SFR (service flow rate) gpm through the resin bed than the resin manufacturer suggests. And when tha thappens. it causes the softener to not be able to remove al the hardness in the water. That's called leakage. Plus, you share water use with the tank that is in regeneration which reduces your water pressure and thereby flow to your fixtures. Some of that applies to all twin tnak softeners.
If you do not have a need for 24/7 softened water, meaning there is no time during the night for a regular softener to regenerate without you using water, then you don't need a twin tank type of softener or their added expense.
If you need a twin tank model, look at the Fleck 9000, 9100 or TwinFlo 100E models and buy over the internet and save maybe $1000 to $2000. And an additional benefit is that when you need service any local dealer can service them.
Otherwise, I suggest a correctly sized softener using a Clack WS-1 control valve. They are the easiest to repair and a DIYer's dream because you can totally rebuild it by changing all of its 4 parts in less than 30 minutes. That's the first time and once you've done it, you can do it in half that time. They have variable reserve and soft water brine refill and inexpensive parts while any local or internet dealer selling Fleck or Autotrol can get parts for it.
Three years ago I bought a softener, filter and uv sanitizer from Ohio Pure Water Co. via the internet. The entire equipment setup was less than what some salesmen were asking for overhyped water softeners. First rate service, no sales tax, no shipping. Equipment used Fleck valves and has worked flawlessly. Check them out on the web .
My wholesaler's counterman's brother's experience with a "salesman" is probably typical. He purchased a water softener, (wholesale cost $450-$600), for $5,500 installed. No separate hard water to the outside faucet, but they did not charge for installation or sales tax. Any reputable plumber would have done the same job for about $1,000. The only difference would be that the customer would not have a "nationally advertised" brand name on the unit.
I've installed thousands of softeners and specialized in Kinetico.. I've removed older K-60's that were 15 to 30 years old.. Purchase a new Kinetico and you'll get a ten year warranty and the best system on the planet. The softener company I worked for sold Kinetico and the competitors electrics and believe me there is a difference. I love LOVE working on Kinetico's because they are easy. And if Kinetico's are overhyped then why are these used units still selling for so much? Please let me know where I can get a K-60 or older kinetico unit because I'd gladly rebuild it..
We recently replaced an old water softener with a $2,200 WaterCare Elan-T water softener and conditioner system that features a charcoal odor-and-taste pre-filter, metered regeneration, etc. that uses "half the water and half the salt".
It has improved our water (crystal clear with no odor or aftertaste) and ice so much that we have stopped buying bottled water for the first time in more than 30 years. I don't know anything about the various system choices, but we're very happy with this one. I'm sure that there are better systems out there for more money, but this one seems to be doing extremely well and worth the price difference over the big box stuff. (We bought it through an area WaterCare dealer that we've dealt with for more than 30 years.)
Overhyped... absolutely. Otherwise they couldn't be sold. All the control valve is plastic and water powered with the associated cost of the many small and close tolerance gears to get it to work, it is much less expensive than a other valves with motors and circuit boards yet they cost the consumer much less.
That is a flatly untrue claim with no definition of the type of efficiency but... the usual Kinetico claim is more efficient salt and water use but.... IF both softeners are using the same size tank and the same volume of the same type resin, they will have the same theoretical efficiencies; it does not matter what control valve is used.
Andy and other Kinetico sales people say something like their softener will use like 1.8 lbs and 35 gallons of water to regenerate and that a regeneration can be done every 45 minutes. That is all true. And that is where they stop.
Yet any thinking kinda person should think if not ask... then how often will one regenerate in MY home? AND! how much salt and water will be used over a week?
There you go again with another unsubstantiated claim! BTW, how do your Kinetico customers measure a half grain per gallon of hardness!!
Also, I size all my softeners for 0 gpg leakage and have been doing so for years. I send a test kit with each one and I don't hear of the softeners failing to do that, and as you know they are two tank type softeners; what you call "single tank" softeners. BTW, why do you do that, because you don't know what the industry calls them or is it just to be different? Or is it a Kinetico thing? It's like you calling a salt or brine tank a "salt drum".
I agree with Gary on this....
Kinectico is too hard to fool with and actually falls
into the same category as Cullligan.....
you simply cannot get culligan parts around here
the only ones tha t will work on culligan in this area is
culligan.... the culligan man has you at his mercy
I personally have at the very least 50 customers that wont let the Culligan Man back in their home...
they screw you when you buy the unit then they gouge you any time it needs service...
.presently it costs about 117 to get the Culligan man to walk in your door then about another 69 bucks
to actually touch your two year old cullligan unit.
Basically Kinnectico has you at their mercy too
every week you can find about a half a dozen adds in the
local papers for people wanting someone to just take their culligan water softener off their hands for free and Kinnectico units too ....
just make the rest of the payments on the damn thing.....
I dont like a product that is overpriced and you have limited options for people willing to service the unit....down the road..
The CLACK has them all beat.
I have a used Culligan unit in my house - somehow I jammed a gear which broke the little motor that drives the gears when I tried to manually regenerate the system. I called the local Culligan dealer, and they charged me about $70 for the service call and a new motor. I thought it was pretty reasonable, but YMMV with whatever service company you call for whatever brand water softener you own. (In contrast, my fiance' paid around $250 for another water softener company to repair his softener, and it still didn't work right after that. He ended up repairing it himself after having this company out three times.)
I owned a Kinetico in my last home, which I sold with the house when I moved. Was it worth th $2500? Looking back, it was overpriced even tho it worked fine for the 5 years I was there. I wouldn't purchase another one, just because of the cost, but I'd buy a used one at a good price.
Here's a place that both my brother and a friend have purchased water softeners from, and have had very good luck with them. It's more than just a "name" on a softener, it's the sum of the parts that make it a good system.
I am planning on getting a water softener soon. I live in West Texas (Midland) and the water is terrible, the city of Midland said you can set your water softener for 25 gpg but their water report says it gets between 35-40 gpg on occasion. I am going to make sure I get an good unit with a Fleck valve but can anyone tell me the improvements that I will notice when the change is made from hard water to soft. I know the lines will have to purge for a while but I never hear about the things people notice for the first couple of months, (spots gone or reduced, bath tub ring gone or reduced, softer skin, etc). I would like to surprise my wife and kids and just see what they say when they notice the difference but I would like to hear what others have niticed too. I guess our water is more on the extreme as far as hard water goes.
All cycle positions of a regeneration are adjustable on both the 9000 and 9100 in either the mechanical or SE (electronic) versions.
The length of time of each cycle position (backwash, brine draw, brine refill, rapid rinse and final rinse) is set based on the volume and type of resin being used and the volume of resin dictates the size of the tank used. The DLFC (drain line flow control sized by its gpm) size is dictated by the volume of resin. So it is not the valve that uses water Andy, it is the entire softener.
If I put two softeners using the Clack WS-1 together with the alternating motor control, I can go co or counter current regenerated with soft water refill and regeneration on an immediate or delayed basis getting water through both at the same time.
I can use that setup on tanks from 6" x 18" up to 21" diameter. If I want to I can used packed bed resin beds and set the salt dose in tenths of a lb.. Meaning... that with the same type of resin I can get exactly the same salt efficiency and possibly better water use efficiency than your Kinetico AND cut the cost in half or more plus... the whole softener is DIYer friendly. Your Kinetico is very DIYer UNfriendly, the owner can't change any setting including their hardness without buying and changing parts from only the local dealer but...
Andy, why is a couple lbs of salt more or less per week so important to you?
Also, tell us specifically how the Kinetico works differently than the 9000 or 9100, or 2 Clacks as a twin tank softener.