My Well is on the Fritz & I could use all the Advice You can Give!

I have a problem with my well (or pump, or pipe) at my beach cabin and I can use all the advice I can gather - so I can talk to a local pump guy correctly.

I had the well drilled in 1978 - into solid rock. It is a marine environment. At 150' we hit a little spray of water. The driller thought he could find more water so we drilled down to 386'. I had him stop at 386' because we did not hit any more water. The little "spray" we fount at 150' "is" my well.

The well has been used part time since 1978 - weekends, long weekends, and a week or two here & there. It is a very low producing well (only 250 gals every 24 hours) but we are careful and it has been ok over the years.

My wife and I have been spending the last 3 months at the cabin and are using the water full time. Again, we are careful... We have a 500 gal cistern with a clear plastic tube on the side to tell me the water level at all times. We can see the start & stop levels on the tube (a 7" spread) for the cistern float switch. We pump from the ground via a submersible pump into the cistern - and suck out of the cistern and into a pressure tank via an above ground pump bolted to the top of the pressure tank.

A couple days ago the water was not refreshing properly, out of the ground. We can only fill about 4" on the tube (about 28 gals) a few times a day lately. Sometimes we only get an 1" or so and have to wait hours for any more water. this is not normal for this well. I go out and turn it on & off, etc, etc. When the water comes up from the ground and into the cistern, you can still hear it burp air and then the water "eventually" comes out of the spout "calmly". Before a couple days ago the water would always come out with "gusto".

What could be causing this?

Can you tell by my description?

Pump going out?
Holes in the galvanized pipe from the pump to the well head?
Well plugged up?
Aquifer on the fritz?

I am stumped & leery about having to "choose" a well expert - as they all think that they are experts! In the building trades everybody's an expert, until they screw something up. I do not have time or money to choose the wrong expert.

Any help, suggestions, and knowledge is really appreciated.

Thanks!

My money is on the pump being shot, especially if it has been in there since 1978. But if there is steel drop pipe it could have a hole in it. It's also possible that the fracture where you got the water is silted up.

Bottom line, you have to find someone you trust to come out and troubleshoot your problem. How about the company that did your well originally?

How deep is your pump, 366? The space between the spritz and the pump gives extra storage.

If they replace your well pipe with strong polyethylene with extra long clamp fitting it would avoid rust. If they put an extra small tube down to the pump, you could measure how much water is standing in the bore by blowing air into the tube with a compressor and reading the max air pressure.

You probably want a device feeding power your pump that shuts down the pump when it runs dry.

Just an observer having read what others have said.

RogerPDX said:

When the water comes up from the ground and into the cistern, you can still hear it burp air and then the water "eventually" comes out of the spout "calmly". Before a couple days ago the water would always come out with "gusto".

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It sounds like you have a hole in the drop pipe or your check valve at the pump is not working. Your pipe in the well holds about 15 gallons of water. So if you have to fill the pipe every time the pump starts, it takes 15 of your 28 gallons to fill the pipe, so you only get about 13 gallons in the tank.

I agree with reach. I would use a larger pump and set it deeper in the well. You should have about 350 gallons stored in the well between 150’ and 380’. You just need a bigger pump to get water from 380’. With that much storage in the well you probably don’t even need the storage tank. But the Storage tank does give you 500 gallons plus the 350 stored in the well.

Water will fill the bottom of the well easier than filling the storage tank. You may even get more water per day this way.

craigpump said:

My money is on the pump being shot, especially if it has been in there since 1978. But if there is steel drop pipe it could have a hole in it. It's also possible that the fracture where you got the water is silted up.

Bottom line, you have to find someone you trust to come out and troubleshoot your problem. How about the company that did your well originally?

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CraigPump, "If" it is the fracture where the water comes out - can this be fixed? I have heard, over the years, about using dynamite but really know nothing about it. Are you familiar with these processes? Maybe it's time to try it... although I'd hate to "blow up" my well.

valveman said:

It sounds like you have a hole in the drop pipe or your check valve at the pump is not working. Your pipe in the well holds about 15 gallons of water. So if you have to fill the pipe every time the pump starts, it takes 15 of your 28 gallons to fill the pipe, so you only get about 13 gallons in the tank.

I agree with reach. I would use a larger pump and set it deeper in the well. You should have about 350 gallons stored in the well between 150’ and 380’. You just need a bigger pump to get water from 380’. With that much storage in the well you probably don’t even need the storage tank. But the Storage tank does give you 500 gallons plus the 350 stored in the well.

Water will fill the bottom of the well easier than filling the storage tank. You may even get more water per day this way.

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What size pump would you say is needed, if I change out my pump? My well driller (who is now dead, but I've spoken with his wife) always set his pumps 20+' off the bottom, in case of silt, rocks, etc. You mentioned lowering the pump. How's that work?

Also, you mentioned that I have 350 gallons stored in the well between 150’ and 380’... 350 gallons is the better part of my 500 gallon tank. When I started from scratch (an empty cistern) it never filled
that full - out of the gate. I only get about 250 gallons in a 24 hour period, by emptying the well and shutting the submersible pump off - waiting some hours and repeating this process over & over.

Once the cistern is full (and we are super careful with consumption) the float in the cistern takes over and we can keep a full cistern. If we use too much water all at once - we have always had to "take time" to replenish the storage in the cistern.

RogerPDX said:

Also, you mentioned that I have 350 gallons stored in the well between 150’ and 380’....

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Unless I missed it, I didn't see mention of the bore size so not sure how valveman came to that conclusion.

As for the air, cottage systems often have a drain-back system. Some drain-back systems involve removing the checkvalve from the pump. This can have disastrous results if the pump is short cycled as that style of drain-back spins the pump backwards.

DON'T USE DYNAMITE. Every well I've seen blasted caved in and after it was cleaned out the water tasted like gunpowder.
Around here we use a process we all hydro fracing, where we basically inject large volumes of water under high pressure into the fractures. Hydro fracing should not be confused with hydraulic fracturing of oil and gas wells. Even though the process is similar, we use plain water, do not use chemicals or propants.

LL, I think Valveman based his calculations on a 6" well, which is pretty much standard in the water well industry.

20' off the bottom is pretty much standard practice in the industry. Even if you lowered the pump 10' it would only result in another 15 gallons. Not worth the expense...

It was not clear at the beginning that your pump was set 20 feet above the bottom.

You should have a device to shut down the pump for a while if the pump starts sucking air. Valveman's company offers that: http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/prod_sensor_geninfo.html It looks at the current draw to deduce if the well ran dry.

Reach4 said:

It was not clear at the beginning that your pump was set 20 feet above the bottom.

You should have a device to shut down the pump for a while if the pump starts sucking air. Valveman's company offers that: http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/prod_sensor_geninfo.html It looks at the current draw to deduce if the well ran dry.

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I've always had a well saver on the pump - no problem there.

Was your driller Denny Martell? I know he passed away recently and was based in the San Juan's. It's safe to assume that being in washington it is a 6" well. I can give you the names of a couple of Washington based companies that hydro frac wells. This is a process whet an inflatable packer is installed in the well, then high pressure water is injected to clean out EXISTING fractures. The pressures used in the water well industry will not create new fractures but at 500-3000 psi will flush and clean out existing fractures. I know of two companies in eastern washington that do this.

Boycedrilling said:

Was your driller Denny Martell? I know he passed away recently and was based in the San Juan's. It's safe to assume that being in washington it is a 6" well. I can give you the names of a couple of Washington based companies that hydro frac wells. This is a process whet an inflatable packer is installed in the well, then high pressure water is injected to clean out EXISTING fractures. The pressures used in the water well industry will not create new fractures but at 500-3000 psi will flush and clean out existing fractures. I know of two companies in eastern washington that do this.

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My driller was Bill Munich. He was murdered at his water landing strip out at Campbell Lake in the Anacortes area.
I would like the names of the frackers, if you can get them to me. Thanks very much.

There is NW Hydrofracing in nine mile falls which is in the Spokane area. Fogle pump also fracks wells, they are in colville, wa, I also called the Washinton State Groundwater Assn office in Burlington. Linda told me that Mark Sawyer Drilling in Olga, on Orcas island Also does it, and he's close to you!

Around here wells that are zone fracked with 2 packers will generally have a higher yield. You might want to ask what their experience is out there.

We used to use blasting caps on plugged screens with great success. Once in awhile it would blow a hole in the screen or make an existing one worse.

A 6" well here would be disappointing if it made less than 100-200 GPM FWIW. Just shows how things are different from place to place.

craigpump said:

DON'T USE DYNAMITE. Every well I've seen blasted caved in and after it was cleaned out the water tasted like gunpowder.
Around here we use a process we all hydro fracing, where we basically inject large volumes of water under high pressure into the fractures. Hydro fracing should not be confused with hydraulic fracturing of oil and gas wells. Even though the process is similar, we use plain water, do not use chemicals or propants.

LL, I think Valveman based his calculations on a 6" well, which is pretty much standard in the water well industry.

20' off the bottom is pretty much standard practice in the industry. Even if you lowered the pump 10' it would only result in another 15 gallons. Not worth the expense...

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