old flange with new tile

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jim baird

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Old flange is steel, but maybe not stainless. Mounting screw heads rusty. Can I simply caulk extender ring onto this without removing old rusty screw heads. Also need to shim a little on front edge. Maybe bore extender and fasten to old metal with self tappers?

New to tile guy.
 

jim baird

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thanks for the reply. Already have the spacer to put me at +3/16 or so. Should not I shim the spacer level?
 

Jadnashua

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Unless the out of level is extreme, the wax will compensate fine. I'd replace the screws holding the flange down with either SS or solid brass, though, and if the holes in the spacer happen to align, I'd probably use longer ones going through both into the subflooring.
 

WJcandee

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I wouldn't use the spacer, assuming that you are planning to put it on top of the flange. Under-flange spacers are fine, but above-the-flange spacers are going to be a source of leaks down the line. Just use the two wax rings if the top of your flange is below the level of the finished floor.
 

jim baird

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thanks for the replies.

Spacer is solid plastic with two bolt and a few screw holes pre-bored.

What I don't want to do, Jim, is mess with the screws in the old metal flange that look so rusted I would likely have to bore them out to remove them.

Out of level is not severe, but looks obvious to the eye. BTW the WC had two hairline cracks in each front corner of its base, which caused it to flunk the reuse inspection. Could that cracking be result of glacial out of leveling movement of the flange. Floor structure (as best I can tell, is sound. I did just install cement board and tile. I built my home 25 yrs ago, and I think the floor frame is about 80lbsf rating.

Would not the spacer lend some support to the wc and its wax washer and thereby relieve strain on the ceramic base of the new unit?
 

WJcandee

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Would not the spacer lend some support to the wc and its wax washer and thereby relieve strain on the ceramic base of the new unit?

No. The toilet sits on the floor, not the flange. The outflow of the toilet empties into an area defined by the flange and sealed with wax. There should never be any physical contact between the toilet and the flange, just between the toilet and the wax. The wax is extremely-malleable and doesn't provide any "support", just a seal against sewer gas. (Of course, the closet bolts in the flange will connect to a nut that holds the toilet in place.) If the toilet is out of level, you can shim it a bit on the installation with plastic window shims from HD.
 

Jadnashua

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If your toilet rocked at all, or if you overtighten the bolts to the flange holding it, you can break things. Think of those bolts more as alignment rods than anchors. The toilet must sit flat without rocking and the bolts should NOT be used to pull it down and seat it on the wax...you push the toilet down with your weight, then just snug up the bolts. Then, in most places it's required, you caulk around the front 3/4's of the toilet to prevent crud from accumulating underneath it and to help hold it in place. On something like a tiled floor, the caulk holds it much more than the bolts - porcelain to porcelain has very little friction and it doesn't take much to slide the toilet unless it is caulked in place. Use something like PolySeamSeal rather than silicon, so you can remove it without major hassles down the road.
 

jim baird

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Thanks for the replies. An out of level wc, then would be checked way up on top of the bowl after nestling down into the wax and some turning of the bolts, verdad? I have seen a number of wc's that rocked on tile floors. BTW I am a residential codes and home inspector, so have seen lots of work, just never done so much plumbing except my own sfd.
 

WJcandee

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First, you dry fit it. I.e. without any wax etc. Does it rock? If so, put the shims in place so you can see how to pin it down and keep it from rocking. Leave shims in place. Remove toilet. Put wax ring on floor (not on bottom of toilet). Carefully position toilet over where you want it and slowly lower it onto the wax and then smush it down to the floor without rocking it. Apply nuts on bolts.

You don't want to rock the toilet (e.g. to test it) once you have smushed it into place, because wax doesn't rebound and you will end up with a gap.

Look at Terry's son's instructions in the sticky thread above on how to install a Toto Drake; some of the basics for all toilets are included in there.
 
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