CSV or preassure tank

I keep watching videos where people are using a csv pside-kick setup and showing good pressure at their shower and other fixtures and say they are removing the pressure tank they have .They claim the csv pside-kick system will keep the pump running while you shower or use water and that causes it to not cycle on and off as much as with a pressure tank therefore extending the life of your pump.I will be setting up a 1500 gal storage tank soon and piping water from a spring to fill it and dropping my submersible in it and then running this to my home .I was going to get a 36 gal pressure tank and use that but I was wondering should I do this or get a csv pside-kick system and not use a pressure tank at all ?I`m totally new to all this and must get water to my home soon so any help would be appreciated .

A 36 gallon tank only holds about 8 gallons of water. You have 1500 gallons of water in the storage tank. The only job of a pressure tank is to slow down the on/off cycling of the pump, and a 36 gallon tank (8 gallon draw) isn’t going to slow it down very much.

A CSV eliminates cycling by making the right amount of water go past the tank, straight to the faucets. It doesn’t matter how large of a pressure tank you have, because the CSV doesn’t let the tank fill and the pump shut off, as long as there is even one faucet running.

A CSV does need a pressure tank, just not a very large one. The 4.5 gallon tank that comes with a Pside-Kick kit holds 1 gallon of water. When you open a faucet, 1 gallon comes out of the pressure tank before the pump is started. Then the CSV keeps the pump running as long as the faucet is on (Zero Cycling). A tank with 8 gallons of draw and no CSV will cycle the pump on/off at least 6 times during a 50 gallon shower, and will cycle hundreds of times per day when running sprinklers. A CSV eliminates cycling, so a large pressure tank is not needed.

The ability to use a smaller pressure tank is just one of many benefits of a CSV. The CSV also makes pump/motors, pressure switches, check valves, capacitors, relays, and many other things last much longer, while eliminating water hammer. The icing on the cake is strong constant pressure to the house. The CSV makes shower pressure stronger, fill washing machines faster, and sprinklers deliver a perfect spray pattern.

In the last 21 years the CSV has been installed on hundreds of thousands of pump systems. It is very well proven and reliable. It is just that people who make and sell pumps don’t like the CSV. They call it a “disruptive product”. Making pumps last longer and use smaller tanks maybe disruptive to the pump industry, but it is the best thing that has happened for homeowners who have to pay for those pumps and other equipment.

Tom Sawyer said:

Properly sized a pump and tank will perform as well as the side kick will.

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That is absolutely not true. See I told you people who sell pumps don’t like CSV’s. They had rather you stay in the dark and just keep paying them to replace those pumps and tanks on a regular and timely basis.

Tom Sawyer said:

It is, but we've had this discussion too many times already and of the players involved here, I'm the one that has no monetary interest one way or the other.

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IT IS NOT!!

And yes we have had this discussion many times before. I am glad to know you don’t make any money selling pumps and those big “properly sized tanks” that you claim to have been doing for 40 years. LOL


After 21 years, if you can’t find a single unbiased study refuting what I say, a single pump company who denies warranty for using a CSV, or any other “credible” evidence to the contrary, then you are just wasting my time and further confusing those who came here for “GOOD” advice.

If the storage tank has a float switch, What would be the benefit of having a CSV on the well pump ?

Johnny Turner said:

I was going to get a 36 gal pressure tank and use that but I was wondering should I do this or get a csv pside-kick system and not use a pressure tank at all ?I`m totally new to all this and must get water to my home soon so any help would be appreciated .

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What kind of load are you expecting? Three 1.6 gallon toilet flushes per day? Watering the lawn 10 hours per week in the summer? Irrigating the crops? Washing dishes in the sink once per day? Wash your hands a few times per week? Take daily 30 minute showers? (no, these are not legitimate guesses)

CSV performs best in long uses such as long showers and irrigation. Pressure tank performs best with small loads like toilet flushes or hand washing or tooth brushing.

Reach4 said:

CSV performs best in long uses such as long showers and irrigation. Pressure tank performs best with small loads like toilet flushes or hand washing or tooth brushing.

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OR, a CSV with a larger tank is best of both worlds. But even if you don’t have any long term water uses like hoses or sprinklers, there is so little difference between the number of cycles that there is no reason to waste money, space, and heat on a larger pressure tank.

My tests show there is no difference in the number of cycles between a CSV with a small tank and a “properly sized” pressure tank. Some people say there maybe 7% more cycles with the small tank. Either way it is not worth wasting money on a larger pressure tank.

DonL said:

If the storage tank has a float switch, What would be the benefit of having a CVS on the well pump?

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Look at the drawing again Don. There is no CSV or pressure tank on the well pump. But there could be as in this drawing. This way you can use the well pump directly to the house when needed. This can also give you the combined flow of the booster and the well pump to meet peak demands if needed. Or as this drawing is really showing, you can use the well pump straight to the house, and use the storage tank and booster for irrigation only.

7% is a significant number. My testing on an average family of four shows closer to 18% more cycles on average. What you are missing is those less than 30 second water draws for a glass of water, cup of coffee, fill a pot, brush teeth etc that are a big part of daily water use. If everyone was limited to watering the lawn and taking 1/2 hour showers I would recommend a CSV every time but most folks do other things with water.

Well for now I will just have 1 shower ,2 sinks and a toilet .next year I plan on adding another sink shower and toilet .So for now basicly just one bathroom and a kitchen sink is what ill be working with .

Tom Sawyer said:

7% is a significant number.

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LOL, and submersible motors run cooler when installed in a large body of water as compared to tight casing, right? Wrong!

Tom Sawyer said:

My testing on an average family of four shows closer to 18% more cycles on average.

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Even 18% is insignificant on lightly used systems where the pump only cycles maybe 20 times per day. The CSV with the small tank would only cause 24 cycles per day. Saving 4 extra cycles per day is not worth the added expense, space, and heat required for a larger tank. If the water system is used enough that a big pressure tank would cause more than 20 cycles per day, a CSV would greatly reduce the number of cycles.

Tom Sawyer said:

What you are missing is those less than 30 second water draws for a glass of water, cup of coffee, fill a pot, brush teeth etc that are a big part of daily water use.

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I am not missing anything. LOL How many gallons a day do you think are used for glasses of water, pots of coffee, washing toothbrushes, even flushing toilets? Lets pick a big number like 30 gallons. Even if the pump cycled for every gallon you use like this, which it won’t, that would still only be 30 cycles per day. It only takes a couple of long showers where the CSV doesn’t let the pump cycle at all, to more than make up for the cycling from intermittent uses of water.

Tom Sawyer said:

If everyone was limited to watering the lawn and taking 1/2 hour showers I would recommend a CSV every time but most folks do other things with water.

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That is exactly the point. “Most folks do other things with water”. And you have no idea what they are going to do with their water. So you just have to put in a system that will let them do anything they want with the water, and that is exactly what a CSV does.

Johnny Turner said:

Well for now I will just have 1 shower ,2 sinks and a toilet .next year I plan on adding another sink shower and toilet .So for now basicly just one bathroom and a kitchen sink is what ill be working with .

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Since you have no outside or long term uses of water you can certainly get by with a so-called “properly sized” pressure tank and no CSV. You just won’t get the benefit of strong constant pressure in the shower, or the reduced space and cost of the smaller tank. Also with the larger tank, the water will have been sitting in a rubber bag getting warm for hours before you use it, instead of being fresh and cool from the well as with the CSV and small tank.

There are lots of other benefits for using a CSV as well. Some pump installers don’t
think you deserve the benefits of a CSV system. Since you have a lightly used water system, you should just be happy with the pump cycling and the pressure swinging from 40 to 60 while you are taking a shower. You should also just be happy with the cost and space it takes for a big pressure tank.

Having constant 50 PSI for as long as you want to shower is a luxury that you don’t deserve. You might start enjoying longer showers or using water in other ways, and that would just be a waste of water. The CSV will also cause your pump and tank to last longer than normal, and that just isn’t being fair to the people in the pump industry.

Pump guys hate it when you say, “I was reading on the Internet”. Until the Internet, they never had to justify anything they said or did. Now most of their customers are better informed than they are.

valveman said:

LOL, and submersible motors run cooler when installed in a large body of water as compared to tight casing, right? Wrong!



Even 18% is insignificant on lightly used systems where the pump only cycles maybe 20 times per day. The CSV with the small tank would only cause 24 cycles per day. Saving 4 extra cycles per day is not worth the added expense, space, and heat required for a larger tank. If the water system is used enough that a big pressure tank would cause more than 20 cycles per day, a CSV would greatly reduce the number of cycles.



I am not missing anything. LOL How many gallons a day do you think are used for glasses of water, pots of coffee, washing toothbrushes, even flushing toilets? Lets pick a big number like 30 gallons. Even if the pump cycled for every gallon you use like this, which it won’t, that would still only be 30 cycles per day. It only takes a couple of long showers where the CSV doesn’t let the pump cycle at all, to more than make up for the cycling from intermittent uses of water.



That is exactly the point. “Most folks do other things with water”. And you have no idea what they are going to do with their water. So you just have to put in a system that will let them do anything they want with the water, and that is exactly what a CSV does.



Since you have no outside or long term uses of water you can certainly get by with a so-called “properly sized” pressure tank and no CSV. You just won’t get the benefit of strong constant pressure in the shower, or the reduced space and cost of the smaller tank. Also with the larger tank, the water will have been sitting in a rubber bag getting warm for hours before you use it, instead of being fresh and cool from the well as with the CSV and small tank.

There are lots of other benefits for using a CSV as well. Some pump installers don’t
think you deserve the benefits of a CSV system. Since you have a lightly used water system, you should just be happy with the pump cycling and the pressure swinging from 40 to 60 while you are taking a shower. You should also just be happy with the cost and space it takes for a big pressure tank.

Having constant 50 PSI for as long as you want to shower is a luxury that you don’t deserve. You might start enjoying longer showers or using water in other ways, and that would just be a waste of water. The CSV will also cause your pump and tank to last longer than normal, and that just isn’t being fair to the people in the pump industry.

Pump guys hate it when you say, “I was reading on the Internet”. Until the Internet, they never had to justify anything they said or did. Now most of their customers are better informed than they are.

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Well while I have no experience in these systems i`m not a stupid person by any means i have google and watched and read everything under the sun about what i need to do to get water from my tank and into my home. I do raise a pretty good garden every year and if that spring produces enough water i could use some for my garden later .I have seen videos on the pressure tank systems like this one here.

http://youtu.be/GsX4ViX77BQ

Now if you watch that video you will see a before water flow from his fixtures and an after water flow when he installs a booster pump. What`s the point of having a pressure tank if you need a booster pump just to get decent pressure at your fixtures when you can install a csv pside kick kit and get pressure like in this video?

http://youtu.be/9u85QrNBtjQ

So you pretty well sold me on the csv system valveman just from your advice and what i have seen online sounds and looks to me like the csv system is better choice.

Johnny Turner said:

Now if you watch that video you will see a before water flow from his fixtures and an after water flow when he installs a booster pump. What`s the point of having a pressure tank if you need a booster pump just to get decent pressure at your fixtures when you can install a csv pside kick kit and get pressure like in this video?

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There is no way that you would need a booster pump either way. Your 3/4 HP submersible pump will make plenty of power. Your pressure switch and tank and CSV should probably be at the house.

You will want a Pump Sleeve / Flow Sleeve / Flow Inducer Sleeve for your pump in the cistern.