(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Water Softener Trouble Shooting,

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member mikekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    TORONTO
    Posts
    17

    Default Water Softener Trouble Shooting,

    Can someone help with with why my tank is filling with too much water, when it started with no water, every regen it creeps up

    AUTOTROL 255
    1-Cuft Tank
    Pictures: http://db.tt/92iWzKsH


    Problem(s): No soft water coming from softener(fixed?), Then brine level rising

    Looked at:
    • Valve and Valve body, flappers looked a little deteriorated
    • Full Regen Cycle - Looks OK - Brine Tank drains, Brine Tank fills, Goes to Resin Tank,
      6" water out 6" water in, Now fills way more, and doesn't draw
    • Bypass is not on -- just for the people thinking this is a duh question.
    • Appliances have a chalky substance on them, Drains/Grout becoming browned.
    • Hardness of water is 24-26, Softener set at 8, Regen 2x a week.
    • Apartment - just me and the fiancee, Laundry ensuite 1-3x/wk use, dishwasher 1x/wk use


    Took it all apart

    • Broken basket near top of valve head,,, looks like it was glued (was NOT filled with resin when lifted out initially)
    • The resin was at half of the tank, just barely over, and there was black bits in it
    • The tank is orange around the parts where the water 'used' to once sit -- Bleach? Procedure? Cleaning Needed?
    • Bypass assembly put back on just to acquire water flow in the house while softener is out of commission. No leak in the bypass.
    • Cleaned out the vavle body and made sure all O-rings were okay, all good.
    • Washed out screen as mentioned before. Injector not grimy or dirty,
    • One last thing checked -- proper hook up into the system is incorrect,


    Fixed
    • Plumbing I know its not perfect ie, shutoff valve to water heater. Has been fixed since picture.
    • Replaced the media inside the resin tank and rebuilt, made sure tube didnt move etc.
    • Tefloned and siliconed everything for a nice and tight fit
    • Getting softwater now (because of charged resin(new) or because of working softener -- time will tell)


    Solutions

    The only two things I haven't replaced are Brine Draw Assy, and Flappers. Which one is more probable for the cause?

    Can anyone help -- please? I have bad eczema, and need this working on a budget. or I would have replaced the whole thing.

  2. #2
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    1,255

    Default

    See http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...ol-255-Problem

    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...-Tank-fills-up

    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...-drawing-brine

    Could be an air leak. What happens inside the the clear plastic housing with the ball during brine draw cycle?

    The tank is orange around the parts where the water 'used' to once sit -- Bleach? Procedure? Cleaning Needed?
    That is iron rust.
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...softener-resin
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...n-in-the-resin
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/show...Salt-With-Iron
    Last edited by Reach4; 02-20-2014 at 09:24 AM.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member mikekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    TORONTO
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Read all three posts before post.

    It draws fine for a bit then drops, before tanks empty. But nothing is clogged in the Brine assy. But after a regen the assy will lift (partially) float. I pop the top cap open and it sinks again. Sounds like air somewhere just not sure where if its on the flapper side or Brine Assy side. Any testing I could do to help direct where the problem is starting.

  4. #4
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    1,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikekay View Post
    Read all three posts before post.

    It draws fine for a bit then drops, before tanks empty.
    It drops? A bit? Is that about 40 seconds? Do you mean the ball? What tanks empty? Do you mean the tanks holding resin? That does not make sense. The brine tanks? You only have one, right? Plus, if that emptied of brine, that would be good.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikekay View Post
    But nothing is clogged in the Brine assy. But after a regen the assy will lift (partially) float.
    Is the assy the ball? The ball is a single piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikekay View Post
    I pop the top cap open and it sinks again.
    The transparent cylinder that contains the ball has a top cap?
    Quote Originally Posted by mikekay View Post
    Sounds like air somewhere just not sure where if its on the flapper side or Brine Assy side.
    You hear hissing during the brine draw cycle? Sometimes listening through a piece of tubing can isolate a sound.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikekay View Post
    Any testing I could do to help direct where the problem is starting.
    In the transparent cylinder there is a water level, and there is a ball. On my older unit, the cylinder's top is part of the transparent plastic casting, and the bottom of the cylinder connects to the valve body. Initially the cylinder is full of water, and the ball floats high. The water level drops a bit, and the ball hovers mid way for maybe 10 minutes or so during the brine draw. Then the water level drops when the brine tube sucks air, and the ball in the cylinder seals against the bottom.

    So anyway, if you have a leak in the line from the controller to the brine tank or at the connection into the tank, then you could be hearing air hiss in. Sucking air, the draw ends prematurely. You could replace the tubing with a different tube to the bottom of the tank for troubleshooting. If all of the brine gets sucked out, then you know where the problem is.

    You could also try sucking or blowing on the tube (disconnected from the controller) while there is brine in the tank. Blowing hard enough would produce bubbles in the tank, but blowing gentlly would let you maintain a pressure without adding more air. Sucking gently should let you maintain a vacuum without having to suck continually.

  5. #5
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
    Posts
    666

    Default

    With the unit in a service cycle, hold open the first flapper valve behind the timer assembly. You should notice water running into the brine tank. Hold for about1 min. Turn the cam to the brine cycle and watch the check ball. If it drops within a couple minutes, you have an air leak some where. If it continues to draw, you had air in the brine line.

  6. #6
    DIY Junior Member mikekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    TORONTO
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mialynette2003 View Post
    With the unit in a service cycle, hold open the first flapper valve behind the timer assembly. You should notice water running into the brine tank. Hold for about1 min. Turn the cam to the brine cycle and watch the check ball. If it drops within a couple minutes, you have an air leak some where. If it continues to draw, you had air in the brine line.
    Not an airleak, just refills way too much water, and brine-ing stage is fine draws for entire time of the timer. just adds too much water before brine slow rinse about 4 inches, and then during fast refill usually will max it out (float will trigger inside brine tank) or on second regen that happens. I have the dial set to 3, which is the minimum.

    I dont understand why the heck this wont work and its getting to me, I want to understand why its happening. I'm past just buy a new one, it's now a matter of WHY wont it work, I rebuilt the entire valve head. everything is working fine. I live in an apartment on the 9th floor.

    Please help

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
    Posts
    666

    Default

    There is a check ball behind the salt adjustment assemble. Pull it out and make sure it is clean.

  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member mikekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    TORONTO
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mialynette2003 View Post
    There is a check ball behind the salt adjustment assemble. Pull it out and make sure it is clean.
    If you look at the link it will confirm its clean. I took all check balls, out and cleaned except aircheck. The ball in the aircheck never comes down and rinses fine. Everything works fine. The brine refill is just too fast -- I dont know why it fills the water so fast. Now if I forgot to put it in which would be very stupid but now I am at the point of second guessing everything I will check it out.

  9. #9
    DIY Junior Member mikekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    TORONTO
    Posts
    17

    Default

    ***Sorry, air check does come down at the end of the tank stage when it leaves about 2" of water in the tank.

  10. #10
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    1,255

    Default

    Turn salt control clockwise to 3.

  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member mikekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    TORONTO
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Already is on lowest setting, doesn't appear to change the water fast rinse/ rapid rinse situation...

  12. #12
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
    Posts
    666

    Default

    Just reread you 1st post. Didn't notice you said you have not replaced the flappers. That is the first thing I would have recommended. I've seen it years ago where the salt tank fills too much. Replaced the flappers and it corrected the problem.

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member mikekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    TORONTO
    Posts
    17

    Default

    But I help the flappers and still the same issue is there -- I will replace them from a newer autotrol I have kicking around. Flip them as well,,,

    This is crazy.

  14. #14
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Posts
    6,790

    Default

    In your pics I only see one ball other than the one in the brine sight glass.

    I'm not up on Autotrol that much but... the salt dose control looks like is might not be all there, all I see is two little protrusions and I'm not sure that is right. The other control thingy with the concave part on it is the drain line flow control.

    How about the ball in the drain line flow control? Sometimes it falls out when you take the control off the valve and it bounces across the room and ya don't know it and it won't work well without it. Also, that control is based on the diameter of the resin tank, make sure it is the right one. A #9 is for a 9" tank, 10 for a 10" tank. It looks like you have a 9" tank if I'm reading the label correctly.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  15. #15
    DIY Junior Member mikekay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    TORONTO
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Gary to the rescue!

    I did check the ball in the drain line flow that is there because I found a ball on the ground. Now I had 2 other autorol's open at the time so I figured it was out of one of them. And that was the reason for checking the drain ball. The salt dial my memory is somewhat fading me at the moment. I am not home but will check it out at this point I would love a "thats what it was this whole time!?!?" shaking my head while I pop a beer to victory.

    You are correct its a 9" x 42" tank correct with 1 cuft of resin.

    Can you explain more about the salt dose control and why you are thinking it might be the part to blame?

    *** Edit salt control valve is not in any of the pictures, that first part picture is the injector cap.

Similar Threads

  1. Trouble Shooting not sure what to do next, where to go?
    By dkrisp in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 07-30-2013, 04:17 PM
  2. trouble shooting low voltage control operates high volt can lights
    By cwhyu2 in forum Electrical Forum discussion & Blog
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-14-2011, 12:49 PM
  3. Trouble-shooting a WX 202?
    By gram in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-21-2008, 04:09 PM
  4. Water Heater Trouble Shooting
    By IaHawk in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-28-2008, 06:55 AM
  5. Electric Water Heater trouble shooting..???
    By Randyj in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-12-2007, 09:14 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •