Volts leaking to ground rod

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DonL

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I hate to say, But you know me. It is obvious that you do not know what you are doing.

You should call the Man.


Good Luck.
 
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Tell us more about that. What are you measuring and how? Are you measuring the current with a clamp ammeter on a wire going directly to a ground rod or plumbing? That doesn't sound right to me.

I am no expert on this, but I think more info is needed.

What voltages do you have across your 120 VAC outlets under those conditions?

I used a clamp on meter on the grounding cable coming right out of the panel to find that third of an amp.

I have 120v where I expect to find it. The two legs were less than a volt different each from the other.
 
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At any rate current on an electrode should always be called to the attention of the utility company instead of trying to figure out what the problem is by yourself. If the power company gives a clean bill of health then start your trouble shooting but without knowledge it is like peeing into a fan.

I can go with that. This particular municipal is VERY responsive.
 
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First there is no such thing as leaking voltage. Voltage is a difference in potential or the amount of pressure that pushes electrons through a conductor. Amperage or current is what flows, this is how we measure the amount of flowing electrons.

Current is always seeking it way back to the secondary of the utility transformer. If there is current on the grounding electrode be it a pipe or rod then there is a problem with the neutral of the system. If the water system is a public utility then it problem could be with someone else’s neutral and the current is seeking it path back through the electrode and the neutral of the house that the problem is detected.

At any rate current on an electrode should always be called to the attention of the utility company instead of trying to figure out what the problem is by yourself. If the power company gives a clean bill of health then start your trouble shooting but without knowledge it is like peeing into a fan.

I did actually say amperage was leaking, not volts. Look again and you will see that. A third of an amp was going down to the ground rod.

While I am prepared to be wrong on this, it seems to me that when I find no real difference in potential between the neutral and the two hot legs (less than a volt) I don't think the utility's neutral is suspect.
 

JWelectric

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The amount of current on the grounding electrode conductor will be the result of the voltage being applied and the resistance of earth between the grounding electrode and the grounding electrode of the secondary of the utility transformer.

If there was 7 amps at 120 volts then the resistance of the path is ~ 17 ohms and sounds as though a neutral somewhere has failed and using the water piping as the return path. If there is no difference in the voltage at the main with appliances in the house running then it will be someone else’s neutral that is the problem and therefore the utility needs to be involved.
 

Bluebinky

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The amount of current on the grounding electrode conductor will be the result of the voltage being applied and the resistance of earth between the grounding electrode and the grounding electrode of the secondary of the utility transformer.

If there was 7 amps at 120 volts then the resistance of the path is ~ 17 ohms and sounds as though a neutral somewhere has failed and using the water piping as the return path. If there is no difference in the voltage at the main with appliances in the house running then it will be someone else’s neutral that is the problem and therefore the utility needs to be involved.
This answer has my vote. Be safe.
 

ActionDave

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I found as many as seven amps running down the ground cable toward the plumbing and the ground rod in the front of the house.

I took the pressure regulator apart and found a 45v potential across the joint, so there was definitely enough there to get your attention, especially with wet hands.

The tenant's washing machine stopped running and suddenly the amps pouring down the ground dropped to 0.3.

I ran the (gas) dryer as well, and it caused the leak on the ground (at the panel) to go up to nearly 4 amps, same as now the washer was doing.
Something wrong there. Did you compare current on the neutral to the ground and the hot?

Then I released the grounding cable from the plumbing, and then from the ground rod. And found essentially nothing. Less than three volts. And I could not recreate the 45v I had moments before.
I would not be doing that.
 

ActionDave

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Amps go out, amps go back, all of them should be on the hot and the noodle and should read about the same on each when measured individually. Amp clamp around the hot and the noodle together should read close to zero. Are you reading 7A on the hot at the washer? Are you missing 7A on the neutral at washer? The washer may not be the problem, but it is worth checking out.

You have a bad neutral somewhere. The water pipes and grounding electrode system are now the neutral or at least part of it. Break the connection and on one side of it and you have voltage above ground. Good way to get a nasty shock. Also a good way to cook somebody's fridge, washer, stereo system.......
 

hj

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quote; I have 2 Amprobes and a Bell current gun, so does that mean I am qualified?

If you had a formula I race car, would the automatically qualify you as a "race driver"?
 

hj

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quote; Then I released the grounding cable from the plumbing, and then from the ground rod. And found essentially nothing. Less than three volts. And I could not recreate the 45v I had moments before.

If I read this properly, you disconnected the path for the "leakage" which means you would NOT reproduce the previous reading. The washing machine could have "quit" because when you removed the path, as in the situation I described, Everything went to 240 volts and it should have burned out the motor, or doing so eliminated the neutral side of a 120 circuit so there was no "power" to operate it. Your testing procedures may be suspect, so I would have to be there to do my own tests. The only way a neutral/ground rod could "have current" flowing to it with the power to the system turned off would be if "something" was "pumping" power into it because ITS neutral was also defective, ahead of the point where the two systems interconnected.
 
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DonL

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I don't understand, Why a person that knows they are working on a neutral problem, Would disconnect the ground wire from the ground rod, to see if the current on the wire goes away.

I could tell from here.


Be careful playing with electricity.
 
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Amps go out, amps go back, all of them should be on the hot and the noodle and should read about the same on each when measured individually. Amp clamp around the hot and the noodle together should read close to zero. Are you reading 7A on the hot at the washer? Are you missing 7A on the neutral at washer? The washer may not be the problem, but it is worth checking out.

You have a bad neutral somewhere. The water pipes and grounding electrode system are now the neutral or at least part of it. Break the connection and on one side of it and you have voltage above ground. Good way to get a nasty shock. Also a good way to cook somebody's fridge, washer, stereo system.......

One problem with that attempt to test is that this is 1930's equipment in steel flex conduit with rubber and cloth insulated conductors.

I simply cannot get the receptacle out far enough to get the clamp around the conductors, without the insulation likely breaking away. One cannot expect to substantially disturb that stuff without seeing it all fall to bits.

I DID tell the owner that he is due for a re-wire....

I don't see all the amps going down the ground. It shows only 0.3 amps when the washing machine is not running. The house is pulling more than that out of the city at any given moment. Granted, there could indeed be an issue with the power co's neutral. That is my next step.
 

DonL

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I have 2 Amprobes and a Bell current gun, so does that mean I am qualified? I have no plasma suit, so I am definitely not.


The plasma suit should not be required if you have a Aluminum Foil Hat.


PPE is important.
 

LLigetfa

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I don't see all the amps going down the ground. It shows only 0.3 amps when the washing machine is not running. The house is pulling more than that out of the city at any given moment. Granted, there could indeed be an issue with the power co's neutral. That is my next step.

You must not have understood what I wrote about only the differential going to neutral. If each leg is pulling roughly the same amps, there will be no amps on the neutral. THis is sparky 101...
 
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