Possible frozen line between main and meter

Did find out that the public right of way does land just about where the meter is so everything is good there (that's a relief).

After another conversation with the water company (was surprised they even answered) they are sending someone out today to replace the meter and check the supply side so hopefully something will be accomplished there.

After all is said and done I will be putting a heat source in the pit just to make sure.

Thanks for the help, I will update any other information as it comes in to what the actual problem is.

Please do report back.

It is bad enough when the utility company screws you with utility bills when everything is working, let alone getting screwed around when their utilities don't work.


Good Luck.

Here is the past thirty days of Indy temperatures:

If you measure down to the pipe and meter in the pit, are they 48 inches below the cover?

The fact that you shoveled the snow off might have contributed to the problem. Snow, especially fluffy snow, insulates.

So maybe put that 100 watt light bulb or other heat source down the pit. Perhaps cover with a fiberglass bat or more before putting the cover in place. It's not that it is at all sure that the frozen place is near there, but it's what you have to work with. The actual freezing place may be where the pipe passes under a ditch, and the ground is thinner there.

Try heat, insulation, and drive over the electrical cord slowly. Be careful to not drive over the cover, because you don't want to shear off the power cord. Power the extension cord through a GFCI-protected outlets. Outdoor outlets should be GFCI protected.

Reach4 said:

Here is the past thirty days of Indy temperatures:

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That is why I moved to Texas.

First update, I have yet to get a heat source, but plan on getting one tonight if things go well.

Water company left a note on my mail box while I was at work (didn't call me to let me know they were coming) saying that my line in the meter pit was frozen call the plumber back. You may or may not be aware that Indiana got around 10 inches of snow yesterday and guess what was still on my meter pit cover when I got home. I think it's real funny that the service tech could tell my line was frozen buried under 10 inches of snow.

Another tech is being sent out tonight (which is why I can't leave to go get a heat lamp yet) and we'll see what he says.

Updates to follow.

shadowjfaith said:

Another tech is being sent out tonight (which is why I can't leave to go get a heat lamp yet) and we'll see what he says.

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You do not need a heat lamp. Any lamp that consumes 100 watts or so will generate 100 watts of heat. You can use your trouble light, or an old electric blanket, or a hundred or more watt soldering iron (use bricks to keep tip away from stuff), etc.

A crock pot set on high might be good. Just keep high heat away from anything that will burn, and keep high heat away from the glass on the meter.

Update 2 - A supervisor was actually out last night and replaced my meter. My main issue seems to be that I have too much gravel in my pit. I was not aware that the pit needs to be 49 inches deep or as deep as you can get it. I will be addressing this issue when I can, but with the ground frozen I'm not sure I can make much progress yet. The tech showed up a bit late so I was unable to get heat into the pit (we did attempt to dump about 4 gallons of warm water into the pit to thaw it out there, but to no avail) but that will be done today. If that doesn't work I will have to come up with something else.

A few questions below.

The line is frozen between the main and the meter so would a thawing machine be usable in this case. From my understanding you have to close the circuit with the frozen portion in the middle. That would mean my pit and the main line. I don't know if the main line is feasible, but would a hookup to a fire hydrant work? I know it is on the same main line that I am and it would 'close' the circuit, but it is a bit of a distance and I'm not sure if it is even possible.

Also I have heard about line in line thawing where you would run a smaller line down the pipe and then pump warm water throw. I would remove the meter for this and run into the main from the pit. I know that once water does start flowing it comes quick. What problems could I run into here?

Thanks again and more updates to follow this evening.

Some side info.

I was informed that Citizens took over the lines in my district from Indianapolis Water about 10 years ago and the lines were inspected by Cumberland. Well Cumberland does not have records on what depth my lines were buried, the only info the have is were they are (the unfortunate case of old data). On top of that the lines were dug by hand when they were placed (my actual service line may or may not have been, but the main was) so you can't say for sure what happened. The icing on the cake is that main lines installed now (as they have discovered problems with old lines) are buried 2 feet deeper than they were back then. So all that being said I thought my lines were buried up to code (and rightly should have been), but other than digging them up I can't be sure.

I was also issued an apology from the supervisor that I didn't know about the problem 7 days ago.

Air compressor and a vacuum will thaw it out.

Tom Sawyer said:

Air compressor and a vacuum will thaw it out.

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Can you give me a bit more detail on that process?

get some small diameter flexible plastic tubing, attach it to the comperssor and start feeding it down the pipe while the compressor runs. The compressor puts out air that is hot enough to melt the ice. At the same time put the vacuum close to the pipe and wrap a rag around it to half ass seal between the vac hose and the pipe. You need the vacuum running to suck the thawed and cold water out as the compressor does its thing. Takes a little while but it will thaw it out.

shadowjfaith said:

The tech showed up a bit late so I was unable to get heat into the pit (we did attempt to dump about 4 gallons of warm water into the pit to thaw it out there, but to no avail) but that will be done today. If that doesn't work I will have to come up with something else.

A few questions below.

The line is frozen between the main and the meter so would a thawing machine be usable in this case. From my understanding you have to close the circuit with the frozen portion in the middle. That would mean my pit and the main line. I don't know if the main line is feasible, but would a hookup to a fire hydrant work? I know it is on the same main line that I am and it would 'close' the circuit, but it is a bit of a distance and I'm not sure if it is even possible.

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Pouring hot water into the pit seems like not such a good idea.

Thinking about this some more, I think more heat is better. Something over 1000 watts sounds good. A small space heater, for example. How about an electric iron? Yep. You can probably get one at Goodwill. You don't care if the soleplate is skuffed. Again, protect the glass of the meter from direct contact. Do not use flammable insulation down the hole. I think I would set the soleplate on a brick. Sooner rather than later.

That compressor idea is interesting. I think the hope is to get the ice plug to creep so that it can be pushed into a warmer area. The trick is to not blow up your plumbing.

Your idea to hook up to the fire hydrant is interesting. I was thinking of a ground rod driven near but not through the supply pipe.

I doesn't creep, it melts. Done it hundreds of times. Have a compressor and vacuum with the hose and fittings set up to do it. A pressure washer can be converted to work too but it makes a god awful mess.

Take an 1-1/2" pvc san-tee and a rubber reducer that will go from 1-1/2" to your pipe size. Then take an 1-1/2" gem cap and drill a hole in it large enough to push the flexible line from the compressor through. The outlet of the san tee gets adapted to the vacuum hose. I used a Fernco coupling but for one time use duct tape will work fine.

I was thinking that some type of rod could be driven down to the main, but with the ground the way it is I was unsure of the difficulty of that especially if the fire hydrant would work. So far all good solutions and I will be attempting the heat first, but as I said I'm not sure it will work just because I think the line is frozen a bit past the meter and I'm unsure if the heat will carry down the pipe enough. Don't know if I can get access to a compressor or not (my grandfather has one, but I have no idea if it can be easily transported or not) but if anything it sounds like a very plausible solution.

When I do get the line unfrozen I assume some ice will be flying out of the AV valve at the meter along with a ton of water, if I was to have someone with channel locks ready to close the valve would they be able to with the pressure. I know the water company carries the T joints in their trucks and you can get a lot of leverage on that, but an arm down the hole with pliers may be tricky.

Reach4 said:

Thinking about this some more, I think more heat is better. Something over 1000 watts sounds good. A small space heater, for example. How about an electric iron?

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I do own a 1500 watt heat gun. If I was to fashion some kind of support so that it will get air flow along with not blowing directly on anything how would that fair?

It claims to be around 700 (low setting) - 1000 (high setting) degrees F and somewhere around 5,000 BTUs/hour.

You need to think about the extension cord that you are using.

And make sure you plug into a GFCI.

What does the city use to thaw pipes ?

A Salamander will thaw your Pit in 15 Min.

You should not use anything not rated for use in a wet location.

That recommendation of using a electric blanket had me laughing my ass off. And a Iron. Reach you should not be giving advice like that. Sorry.


Good Luck, Be safe.

I would get started with that heat gun ASAP. I would like to see it blowing toward where the pipe from the street comes in if i had a choice. However if it took a long time to set up a support, I would just set the thing on a brick and let it blow anywhere. Time is a big factor too.

Once that is going, you can sit back and think up alternatives and supplements.

With the compressor, if the air supplying the compressor is 9 F, I am wondering how that will help. Plus, you would have to have the meter pulled to feed a tube into the frozen section from the bottom of the pit.

DonL said:

You need to think about the extension cord that you are using.

And make sure you plug into a GFCI.

What does the city use to thaw pipes ?

A Salamander will thaw your Pit in 15 Min.

You should not use anything not rated for use in a wet location.

That recommendation of using a electric blanket had me laughing my ass off. And a Iron. Reach you should not be giving advice like that.

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I disagree. Anything he can do to put heat down there is going to help. It could be an old tube TV set set on bricks. And of course he will use the GFCI-protected outlet, and will keep his improvised heater-- be it iron, soldering iron, or lightbulb-- dry. Searching out the ideal heater is time wasted.

DonL said:

Sorry.

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My BS detector just went off.

DonL said:

What does the city use to thaw pipes ?

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Okay that made me laugh. The city doesn't thaw pipes, they're not required to by law.

I'll make sure everything is good on the safe side. Water and electricity never mix.

I'll make a few calls and see if I can rent a Salamander from somewhere as I don't currently own one nor in the position to buy, but how would I position it? Should I put some block or something under the tail end to point it a bit into the pit? I'm not familiar on how the fuel is positioned on those.

Reach4 said:

Searching out the ideal heater is time wasted.

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I completely agree, but at this point I think it was wasted a long time ago. I haven't had water for 8 days now. It took 7 just for the water company to tell me what and where the problem was so at this point whatever was gonna happen already did.

shadowjfaith said:

Okay that made me laugh. The city doesn't thaw pipes, they're not required to by law.

I'll make sure everything is good on the safe side. Water and electricity never mix.

I'll make a few calls and see if I can rent a Salamander from somewhere as I don't currently own one nor in the position to buy, but how would I position it? Should I put some block or something under the tail end to point it a bit into the pit? I'm not familiar on how the fuel is positioned on those.

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You may be lucky to find one for rent, but they do rent them. Other people have problems just like yours.

Once you get the meter pit thawed you can thaw your other frozen pipes.

You most likely have other places that are frozen also, if you have no insulation. You could use the salamander to thaw them also.

If you think you can thaw out what Mother Nature took a month to freeze without a bunch of BTUs Then you may be mistaking.


Good Luck.