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Thread: help sizing pump

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member ndwolf's Avatar
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    Default help sizing pump

    Last year i had a new well dug and now i want to build the pump house and install a well pump. i could use some guidance on selecting a proper pump. ill give the info i have for the well and maybe someone can help me select the proper pump. i thought about just hiring someone to put the pump in and then take it from there but id still like to have a rough idea what pump size is required so that i dont get screwed by the contractor.

    this info came off the well diggers reciept.
    130ft deep, 92 ft is the water level, perferated pipe set at 110ft to 130ft, 4.5 inch casing plastic
    it also states that 8 to 10 gpm pumped for 1hr with water level then at 126ft.

    From the well pump house there is roughly 160 ft of 1 inch poly to where the house will be. there is also about 6ft of elevation from the well shed to where the house will be. It will be a 2 bath house with only 2 people living permantly there. I also hope to add a small barn and water for a few horses and a few cattle and a small garden.

    with this info can i figure out the right pump size to get? any help would be welcome. thanks!

  2. #2
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Sounds like your well will support a 3/4 HP, 10 GPM pump. If you need more water than that, you would need to put in a storage tank with a booster pump. But you would be surprised how much you can do with 10 GPM. If you start early and stay late you can do a lot of watering with 10 or less GPM.

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    DIY Junior Member ndwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    Sounds like your well will support a 3/4 HP, 10 GPM pump. If you need more water than that, you would need to put in a storage tank with a booster pump. But you would be surprised how much you can do with 10 GPM. If you start early and stay late you can do a lot of watering with 10 or less GPM.
    i read one of your posts that said the pump should be set above the screen does that mean in my well with the perferated pipe set at 110 to 130 ft i would set the pump at 110 ft. or could i set it alittle deeper. also ive been reading about the cycle stop valve and was wondering if that could be applied to this well or would just a large bladder tank and pressure switch be better.

    Also what is best used to protect the pump if the water level drops below the pump intake as it seems that this well can be pumped low pretty quickly if i understand the diggers pump data correctly. thanks for your input.

    forgot do you have a special brand of submersible you like over others. thanks again

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    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndwolf View Post
    i read one of your posts that said the pump should be set above the screen does that mean in my well with the perferated pipe set at 110 to 130 ft i would set the pump at 110 ft. or could i set it alittle deeper. also ive been reading about the cycle stop valve and was wondering if that could be applied to this well or would just a large bladder tank and pressure switch be better.

    Also what is best used to protect the pump if the water level drops below the pump intake as it seems that this well can be pumped low pretty quickly if i understand the diggers pump data correctly. thanks for your input.

    forgot do you have a special brand of submersible you like over others. thanks again
    Since the well test showed a pumping level of 126’, you will need to put the pump as low in the well as you can. In our area we would have use 5” casing so you could install a 4” flow inducer sleeve to keep the motor cool. However, in your case you will just have to live with what you have as a flow inducer won’t fit in 4.5” casing.

    A Cycle Stop Valve and a 4.5 gallon size tank will do a much better job than a large tank without a CSV.

    I don’t like the Pentair version of the 10 GPM pump as the amps don’t drop when using a CSV. Goulds will drop a little and a Grundfos will drop a lot. But that won’t make much difference with just a HP motor.

    A Cycle Sensor is a good device for Dry Well protection and works well with a CSV when other devices will not. It will also protect against a rapid cycle condition, which occurs if anything goes wrong with the CSV, tank, or pressure switch.

  5. #5
    DIY Junior Member ndwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    Since the well test showed a pumping level of 126’, you will need to put the pump as low in the well as you can. In our area we would have use 5” casing so you could install a 4” flow inducer sleeve to keep the motor cool. However, in your case you will just have to live with what you have as a flow inducer won’t fit in 4.5” casing.

    A Cycle Stop Valve and a 4.5 gallon size tank will do a much better job than a large tank without a CSV.

    I don’t like the Pentair version of the 10 GPM pump as the amps don’t drop when using a CSV. Goulds will drop a little and a Grundfos will drop a lot. But that won’t make much difference with just a HP motor.

    A Cycle Sensor is a good device for Dry Well protection and works well with a CSV when other devices will not. It will also protect against a rapid cycle condition, which occurs if anything goes wrong with the CSV, tank, or pressure switch.
    thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. wish i would have known about the 5inch casing i would have went with that. the mrs asked the well digger what depth to set the pump at and he said around 120ft so from your input and his staement ill put it at 122 and see how it works.
    i will go with a CSV and a tank(although maybe a little larger than4.5 gallon)

    and i will definetly go with the cycle sensor. are all these cycle sensor devices pretty similiar or is there some to watch out for. i did look at the ones at cyclestopvalves.com.
    so i guess a goulds like this should work
    http://www.aquascience.net/submersib...dex.cfm?id=373
    thanks again for your advise

  6. #6
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Since they managed to pump it down to 126 in an hour, 122 might run dry sooner. You should consider a cycle sensor to protect against the well running dry.

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    DIY Junior Member ndwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Since they managed to pump it down to 126 in an hour, 122 might run dry sooner. You should consider a cycle sensor to protect against the well running dry.
    yea im also sure it will run dry sooner at 122ft than it would at 126ft. i just dont know what the pros and cons are for putting the pump almost all the way at the bottom of the well (i.e. 126ft.) do wells silt up the last few ft or what about cooling the pump is it harder to cool at the bottom? things i just dont know dont know. would there be away once i bought the pump to drop it down and start pumping and then be able to determine what the best depth would be?

  8. #8
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    I suggest you tape a length of 1/4" tubing to the downpipe so that you can use it later to monitor the water level. There is a possibility that the well will develop over time and produce more GPM.

    There is also the chance that the bottom could silt up depending on the formation and the size of screen they used. The lower the pump, the less flow there would be passing the motor so less cooling. When they drilled, they might also have bored a couple of feet into the bedrock or into a non-permeable layer and so there might not be any flow through the last few feet of screen anyway. If the motor got buried in silt, that too can affect cooling.

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    DIY Junior Member ndwolf's Avatar
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    how can a 1/4 inch tubing be used to monitor the water level

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    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Put a Tee on the top of it with a schrader valve and a low pressure gauge. Pump air into it and read the gauge. Formula is .43 PSI per foot.

  11. #11
    DIY Senior Member VAWellDriller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    Since the well test showed a pumping level of 126’, you will need to put the pump as low in the well as you can. In our area we would have use 5” casing so you could install a 4” flow inducer sleeve to keep the motor cool. However, in your case you will just have to live with what you have as a flow inducer won’t fit in 4.5” casing.

    A Cycle Stop Valve and a 4.5 gallon size tank will do a much better job than a large tank without a CSV.

    I don’t like the Pentair version of the 10 GPM pump as the amps don’t drop when using a CSV. Goulds will drop a little and a Grundfos will drop a lot. But that won’t make much difference with just a HP motor.

    A Cycle Sensor is a good device for Dry Well protection and works well with a CSV when other devices will not. It will also protect against a rapid cycle condition, which occurs if anything goes wrong with the CSV, tank, or pressure switch.

    You get a Grundfos 3"pump and put it in 3" sleeve, and easily fit that in your 4.5" well. Given the relatively low static, you probably should set the pump as deep as you can, and this would still ensure proper cooling.....they also come with built in run dry and over/under voltage protection built in the motor...you can use them with a csv if you want.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member ndwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAWellDriller View Post
    You get a Grundfos 3"pump and put it in 3" sleeve, and easily fit that in your 4.5" well. Given the relatively low static, you probably should set the pump as deep as you can, and this would still ensure proper cooling.....they also come with built in run dry and over/under voltage protection built in the motor...you can use them with a csv if you want.
    that sounds like a good idea
    could you direct me to some place that sells that model pump and sleeve. thanks
    is this what your taking about
    http://www.aquascience.net/submersib...ex.cfm?id=1296
    Last edited by ndwolf; 01-18-2014 at 06:42 AM.

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    DIY Junior Member ndwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Put a Tee on the top of it with a schrader valve and a low pressure gauge. Pump air into it and read the gauge. Formula is .43 PSI per foot.
    thats very interesting . how much air do you pump in though still not sure how this works.

  14. #14
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    As much as it takes. The surplus comes out the bottom end. That is what tells you (using the math) how many feet of water there is at the time above the bottom of the tube.

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    DIY Junior Member ndwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    As much as it takes. The surplus comes out the bottom end. That is what tells you (using the math) how many feet of water there is at the time above the bottom of the tube.
    now i think i understand. you pump air in until the gauge doesnt go up any more because the air is escaping out the bottom and then whatever the gauge reads at that time you divide that by .43 and that tells you how many ft of water there is.

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