Bad state of affairs concerning off shore products

Here is a history of where the USA is going, based just on my observation of the history of a simple blower motor, and I really do not care for what I am seeing. I am sure my ranting could likely apply to other fields as well.


I own an old obsolete Bison wood fired hot air burner. Strangely enough, with only minor repairs like replacing the door gasket, and removing the automatic thermostatic controlled damper which would damp the fire down thus reducing its output (a good thing) but increasing the formation of creosote (a very bad thing), the unit is still fully functional. However, lately it has not been so easy to keep it operating due to off shore products.

The original blower motor was powered by a cheap 120VAC sleeve bearing direct drive capacitor motor with a 3/8" shaft. It lasted at least a couple of decades but it did require a drop or two of motor oil on the sleeve bearings once or twice during the heating season (takes maybe 30 seconds to oil it up). Cause of failure; the sleeve bearings finally failed. Interesting to note when taken apart, the Dayton blower had rubber isolation mounts between the blower and motor to reduce operational noise. Dayton no longer manufactures the original blower but had an upgraded unit, (if one would consider a Chinese ball bearing motor to be an upgrade). My anticipated lifespan of the upgraded blower I then thought would be essentially forever since the sleeve bearings appeared to be the weakest link. After going through two of these Chinese blower/motors in six years, I now only anticipate two or three years, and considering it is only used in the heating season and intermittently at that, these continuous duty rated motors seem to have a total use life expectancy of around a year. Cause of failure was hot running likely due to its design (whether intentional or not I do not know) and made worse by ball bearing failure; both units were hot running right out of the box. Having worked on naval sonar systems most of my life if I had found any system resolver or servo that had any resistance whatsoever when turned by hand, it would be replaced immediately. The ball bearings in these Chinese blowers really fall far short of what I have come to expect in quality from American manufacturers. Have no idea of why Dayton decided to go off shore, although I could guess, for the replacement blower since I did have a love affair with the reliability of motors manufactured by Dayton.

The recent (just yesterday) replacement was a Rotom blower thinking a Canadian outfit would understand the necessity of reliable heating equipment. The blower was of the same approximate specifications as the Dayton and is direct replacement. Unfortunately, I discovered that it too is made in the Peoples Republic of China. This blower is running hot as previous purchased Chinese blower motors, so once again I had to order out a replacement. The motor is warranted only for one year (not surprising) which would amount to probably less than two months of total continuous use. Have no idea of how long this motor will perform but must assume that a standby replacement will likely be needed and as such has been ordered. Time will tell! I did check with my local electrical supplier and he did mentioned that two or three years is about all that one should expect from these blower/motors.

There is no question that these blowers are very low cost, but considering that a blower failure would not only jeopardize your heating system, you would be risking consequential damage of having frozen water pipes.

I did consider removing only the motor from the blower and replacing it with an American made motor, assuming I could find one. Alas, the diameter of the shaft was measured at 12 mm or 0.472”. I am at a total lost as how to go about resolving this problem in replacing the motor. It would be easy enough to ream out the old squirrel cage blower to ½” using a drill press, but I would still have to find an American made end mount motor to fit the blower’s housing and with the proper voltage, rotation, speed, HP etc.

Getting so desperate to get something reliable, I am thinking about using a jack-shaft and pulley and move toward the use of a belt powered blower with a detached American made motor as the prime mover.

Any suggestions would be helpful?

What makes you think an American made motor would be any better quality?

The reason they used sleeve bearings is because they lasted in that application.

If your shaft on the old armature is good, You can just replace the bushings.

Is Mexico off shore ?

Tom Sawyer said:

What makes you think an American made motor would be any better quality?

Click to expand...

Probably you are right, I just an old dog and remember the way things used to be.

As far I am concerned, Mexico is off shore when it comes to producing the quality products I have been used to.

One thing about this form is it does make me think. You are definitely right about sleeve bearing lasting in say a blower motor operating in a dirty dusty basement. Grit is the natural enemy for ball bearings and the sealed ones may not be as well sealed as one might think. I guess it depends on who makes it.

I had a pair of not so well sealed ball bearing that went dry. They were easy to removed so I tried to oil them with a hypodermic oil filled needle. Results were not very good! Then I succeeded when I placed them in a dish of oil such that they were completely covered. Then into my vacuum chamber they went; I watched through the Plexiglas as air bubbled out of the bearings. Left it overnight, occasionally pumping some more air out of the chamber to replace what leaked away. Then I return the bearings to normal pressure, and again left them covered in oil for a day or two. That did work very well as the oil replaced the air sucked out, but I guess it does not say too much about just how well the bearings were sealed to begin with.

So there is something not quite right with your logo, theory can sometimes work even though you do not have a perfect vacuum!

Did you replace the run capacitor by any chance?
That can make a motor run hot if its bad.

I thought about that but even the new replacement blower/motor ran hot. What I am not sure of is if both Dayton and Rotom may use the same Peoples Republic of China manufacturer and just relabeled the blower. Of course, I could measure the capacitor to see if it comes even close its stated value on the blower motor I just removed, but what is sticking in the back of my mind is a statement made by Valveman that these replacement parts are intentionally designed to have a short live span for several reasons. The first reason is the cost to make it is less since the materials used in its construction is less, and the second is the consumer has to purchase several replacement blowers in a relative short period of time. Look at me, when I found I could not touch the blower/motor just replaced because it was running so hot, I knew it was going to fail. It took two weeks to die but by then I had a brand new replacement blower ready to go. This second blower also ran hot. Not quite as hot as the failed one as I could touch the housing of the new motor but could not keep my finger on the housing for more than 2 seconds or I would receive a burn. This new replacement blower, I definitely believe is designed not to last so once again I had to order out the exact same thing as a replacement. Within two weeks I had to purchase two identical blowers because I have no trust in the manufacturer’s quality of construction. My beliefs are confirmed, at least to me, when under a new label the dealer offers only one year guarantee on a continuous duty rated blower that they know is only going to be used during the heating season and intermittently at that.

Now you know why I started this thread and my ranting, because Valveman claim seems to me to be right on the mark.

Let me put things into their proper perspective; if Dayton still made the original sleeve bearing blower/motor that they produced say three or four decades back, I would pay twice as much to purchase that blower as what I had just paid for the two Peoples Republic of China blowers.

It would seem to me that there should be some legal aspects as to what is happening as well. I hate litigation and lawyers but considerable damage could be done to a home during the winter should the occupants go on vacation and find on their return water pipes had frozen, then thawed out, and massive damage had been done to their property. Sometimes lawyers are needed, and I wonder what liability an American Vendor has, if any, when they place their label on an offshore product. Not sure if they are protected or not, as this would be an extremely difficult item to prove that the design of these blowers could be questionable. The distributors that I have spoken to have confirmed that these types of blowers typically last only two or three years. It is common knowledge, or at least it should be, they do not have a long useful lifespan. I am also sure that the exact same thing is happening with pumps, appliances, toaster ovens, even some PEX brass fittings; you name it and then take a look at the warranty period. I cannot find a refrigerator that carries more than a one year warranty period! Then when it fails two years later they claim it is your fault because you didn't spend $$$ for a one/two year extended protection plan. Normally, I am against protection plans, but there are certain items that now have me wondering about.

Perhaps I am way off base here, as I suspect the American consumer is driving this madness. Say an American manufacturer makes a well designed, reliable product (a simple electric blower in this case) and offers it for $300 retail. Then they have an option of offering a similar unit but not of the same quality, made by an off shore company for $150. The consumer now has the choice of paying $150 or $300! I could be wrong here, but I would guess 98% of the time the consumer would fork out the $150, so what is vendor supposed to do?

I have contacted a major American vendor to discuss the above and ask if they have some resolution for this problem. For all I know, there could be a quality made blower that is offered but the normal distributors do not advertise it. Another possibility is they might be able to offer just a quality replacement blower motor that could be substituted as the blower’s housing will likely last forever.

It is also possible that vendors just might have their hands tied since to operate profitably now a day is becoming increasingly difficult because of Governmental mandates, regulations, and paperwork.

I probably will post their reply, assuming I get one, but I would be very surprised if they did not come up with some practical suggestions.

Being an electrical engineer perhaps I should act like one! When the latest blower is received, since the working temperature is approximately 90 degrees hotter than the ambient temperature it is working in, then passive cooling fins just might be one possible answer. Another is a low voltage cooling fan directed at the blower’s motor.

Far more people shop price than they do quality. The manufacturers look for turnover in their products, so it isn't a far cry to expect them to build products to a price, rather than to a quality level, knowing others will step into that market, and then while they may have the superior product, nobody buys it!

Some companies have more pride in their products, and if they can get a big enough following, they stay in business and thrive. But, many companies are driven by their financial advisors, and their stock prices and dividends. You don't have to look far to see that. GM was a big one where that caused them to lose huge market share and eventually go bankrupt, needing a kickstart.

Some of this is our society, so is the education level, and some is the economy. Some societies have a very long timeline - just look at some of the big Japanese companies...they had a long-term plan, and it took them MANY years for their message to come across, and in the meantime, their profits were low, they had good customer feedback, and evolved. Today, if you don't make it quickly, and please the investors, you're out, either replaced, or out of business altogether.

It's sad. Some people are never exposed to a truly quality product, not realizing that it may outlast may lesser items, looking good, and working as designed, and in the long run, holding value, and being a pleasure to own and use. But, the new one is flashy, especially in the short term, and cheap. Too many people are in the instant gratification loop, and aren't willing or able to try to save and actually invest in a quality product.

One could also say similar things in our politics, both local and national...our voter turnout and voter education is so deficient compared to some other societies...in a word, we probably get what we deserve.

Cannot argue with anything you stated.

I did get a response from the vendor (took them only hours to respond) and they did apologized for the poor performance of the product and suggested a different model might be more suitable. The replacement suggested uses sleeve bearings (which I suspect from the suggestions of this form's members just might have a much longer life), if properly lubricated, than ball bearings running in a dusty basement environment. However, the replacement suggested is not a capacitor motor but a shaded pole.

I sort of feel like an idiot since I am seeking help in my own field but I cannot recall what type the original long lasting blower motor was, since I trashed it. I know shaded pole motors can be very reliable, they lend themselves to mass production, and are in use all over the place. However, it is a very tough call for me to decide which type of motor would be better suited for my application as I suspect much might have to do with how it is designed and made. One specification that I had not noted previously is the specified ambient operating and input air temperature of 104 degrees. To me, that seems like a fairly low temperature for a blower designed to move hot furnace plenum air about.

Being curious, I let the furnace go cold iron, and then manually ran the blower/motor for ten minutes. Was not surprised that the motor once again got hot, and while I could touch it; the ambient and input temperature was only 70 degrees. Possibly what happened is the original motor (whatever its type was) was suitable for its application. Then it seems that the specifications for the replacement unit might have changed thus making it questionable for its current application. Even though it is operating within its specified ambient temperature, I suspect that since it is operating so close to its ratings that the use of this motor just may not be the best choice. Another possible problem with this blower is the motor is externally end mounted to the blower's housing and is a direct drive. Being end mounted as such, one end of motor is totally sealed off from air flow. I placed my hand around the exposed aft end of the motor to feel for air flow and there was not much there.

I suspect that the problem is just too much blower for a small motor without adequate air flow through it to be happy arrangement. Place it in a hot environment and that spells curtains!

Can you use spacers on the end of the motor mount ?, is the shaft long enough ? 1/16 inch spacers would be better than none.

Do you have any pictures of the motor you are talking about ?


Good Luck.

Appreciate the help DonL; yes I can supply a picture since this must be one of most popular blowers out there. Quite a list of vendors that carry it, i.e. A/O Smith, Dayton, Rotom, and probably the list goes on even further. The blower assembly seems to be identical for all models but the motor used can be a shaded pole or a capacitor run unit with either sleeve or ball bearings. This blower is touted to be useful for wood stoves and fireplace inserts among other things. One common spec for all of them, when I can find it, is the maximum air inlet temperature and its ambient operating temperature is rated at 104 degrees F.

I have it on a wood fired furnace which means it has insulation within it to keep its top surface cool. I would doubt that the ambient temperature is more than 75 degrees. The air input temperature is a little harder to measure at the input, since I did not wish to poke a hole in the blower’s housing but did stick my thermocouple probe in the ducting a short distance away and the most I could get the temperature up to is 90 degrees when I fired the furnace stack temperature up to 1000 degrees. This is normally not the way I like to operate the furnace since at these high stack temperatures a lot of firewood is being wasted putting out heat into chimney. Typically I run the furnace between 600 and 900 degrees.

In fact, when I could not put my hand on the blower’s motor, I could place it comfortably on the top of blower’s housing. What seems a little silly to me is I cannot think of a wood stove or fireplace that does not get quite a bit hotter than 104 degrees.

Go to the following website to see a picture of it with specs;
http://www.sqone.com/index.cfm?fusea...o&prodId=70977 then in the search box, enter 9465

I now have Rotom unit in place but they all look very similar to the AO Smith unit. Note too, the motor is not in the duct work but is exposed to 75 degree air.

I think that putting spacers between the blower and the face of the motor would definitely allow the motor to run cooler but unfortunately it will no longer be rated at 495 cubic feet per minute. If the hot air is not moved out, the furnace could easily overheat. It is exactly like a hot air oil burner, should the main distribution blower fail, some sort of safety system should cut in to secure the burner. Wood stoves and furnaces may or may not have these sophisticated fail safe systems.

Since I have been getting couple of year’s worth of use out of these blowers, I am thinking about two stainless hose clamps around the motor holding an aluminum bracket which will have a small cooling blower on it directed at the hot blower’s motor. Wish I knew where to purchase those passive aluminum circular heat fins that used to be available to place on round duck work to steal some heat from them.