Tank draw down and recovery

I bought a cabin this year. It has 2 bedrooms and 1 bath. The original owner was a Hungarian immigrant and built the place himself, and also drove a sand point well by hand. The well is located inside in the basement. The pressure tank and the pump all seem to be near brand new, I’m guessing installed by the previous owner (not the original owner).

The water from the well is full of iron bacteria, and all of the water fixtures, bathtub, sinks, toilets were stained from the rust. So, I had a Lindyspring system installed. The Lindyspring system consists of a berm filter/softener unit and then a sanitizer unit. Both units require “regeneration†after 900 and 600 gallons, respectively, of water use. When the regeneration cycle runs it draws the pressure tank all the way down to 0 psi and the pump runs continuously for up to 15-20 min after which it feels warm to the touch. Fortunately 600 gallons lasts usually about 4-6 weeks, so I am not regenerating very often, but I am worried I may be putting a lot of stress on the pump.

I feel that a big part of the problem is that the suction side of the pump has been reduced to 3/4†(from 1-1/4â€) but has 1†on the discharge side. The well has a 2†steel pipe casing. At the top of the casing is a cap that has been modified to take a 3/4†fitting and then a 3/4" hose runs from the well to the pump. I was going to attempt to change the cap on the well casing so I could run a 1-1/4†connection from the well to the pump, but when I removed the cap I found that a 3/4" hose was connected directly to it and was being used for a drop pipe. I was expecting to find a check valve inside of there??

Does anyone have any suggestions for making improvements to this system that wouldn’t be a significant expense?

Here are the details that I know:

Jet Pump
One pipe down the well

Size of Pump?
Motor Horsepower? 3/4
Pump Model # Red Lion
Date Pump Installed ??? less than 24 mos.

Pumping from?

Water Well / Hand driven sand point
Depth of well - ?? less than 25 ft.
Depth to water- ??
Pump Setting - ?
Pipe Size 1 1/4" reduced to 3/4" on suction side and 1" on discharge
Drop Pipe Material - Plastic rigid hose


Well Recovery Rate_______gpm
Well Casing Diameter 2"
Rock Well__________ Sand Well__________ Other______________
Date Well Drilled - ??

Well Casing Material
PVC________ Steel_____x____ Other_________


Pressure Tank?
Bladder or diaphragm tank (one pipe to tank) - Bladder
Size or model of tank____flotec 42 gal________
Air charge in top of tank, with pump off and water drained_____38_______PSI
(check with car tire gauge)


Pressure Switch Setting?
On 30, off 50 ___x_____

Pump Control Method?
Cycle Stop Valve model #_________
Variable speed control #__________
Pump Start Relay (sprinkler timer, no tank)__________
Manually turned on and off____________

Pump Protection
Cycle Sensor_________
Pumptec_____________
Low pressure cutoff switch (lever on side)__________
Other_______________

Filters or Softeners - Sediment Filter, followed by a Lindyspring system, softner/sanitizer
Before or after pressure tank - After
Type of filter_____sediment filter is paper cartridge_____________
Bypass available_____no on the sediment filter, yes on the Lindyspring System_________

Water Used For?
House Use___X____ Number of baths____1___ Number of People____2____
High Flow Showers_______gpm?
Plus/Or
Irrigation with timers________
Irrigation with hoses________
Heat Pump______gpm?


Problems Experienced
No Water_________________
Water only part time________
Water at all times but weak_____
Air in water_______________
Pressure surging___________
Water Hammer (noise)______
Too Much pressure_________
Other______Drawdown during Lindyspring regeneration cycle______________


Pump makes clicking or buzzing sounds________
No Sounds______________
Pressure gauge reading________psi
Other____________________________________

Do you have, and know how to use
an Ampmeter and Voltmeter__________________

A 1 ¼” suction line may help. You may can also reduce or restrict the amount going to regin to keep the pressure from bottoming out.

The motor should be hot to the touch, that is the way they run these days. But the liquid end should never be warm with cold water running through it.

That pump/well combination will not produce enough volume or pressure to properly backwash your filter no matter what you do. If you continue to use it, in short order the media in the iron filter will load up to the point where it will be useless.

valveman said:

A 1 ¼†suction line may help. You may can also reduce or restrict the amount going to regin to keep the pressure from bottoming out.

The motor should be hot to the touch, that is the way they run these days. But the liquid end should never be warm with cold water running through it.

Click to expand...

Tom Sawyer said:

That pump/well combination will not produce enough volume or pressure to properly backwash your filter no matter what you do. If you continue to use it, in short order the media in the iron filter will load up to the point where it will be useless.

Click to expand...

When I removed this cap I was expecting to find a check valve, but what i found was that the cap was basically just a cover for the casing but it is also a coupler. Their is another 3/4 plastic pipe connected to the bottom side of the cap and there was no check valve. In the space that i had I was able to pull up a good 5 or 6 ft. of it. I did not attempt to pull it all the way out. My assumption is that this is the drop pipe with some sort of point at the end of it. ??? Can I pull that up and replace it with larger pipe in your opinion? Or is there another answer "Tom Sawyer"? Maybe a second smaller tank before the filter?

I would bet that originally the galvanized pipe was the point and it failed so someone shoved the 3/4 poly down there instead. You need to find the paperwork that came with the birm filter so find out the flow requirements and see if your pump is capable of meeting them. I doubt it is. Birm is a heavy meadia that requires a lot of flow to lift and clean the bed. The filter will have the specifications for it that tell you what gpm you need to backflush it. Most shallow well jet pumps, even if they have a good water supply will have a hard time backwashing birm. IOW, buying the birm filter was a mistake.

valveman said:

A 1 ¼” suction line may help. You may can also reduce or restrict the amount going to regin to keep the pressure from bottoming out.

The motor should be hot to the touch, that is the way they run these days. But the liquid end should never be warm with cold water running through it.

Click to expand...

He cannot reduce the volume to the birm filter. If anything he needs to drastically increase the volume to it. Birm is a heavy media that requires a lot of volume to lift and clean it properly. Reduced flow will result in rapid clogging of the birm media.

Tom Sawyer said:

I would bet that originally the galvanized pipe was the point and it failed so someone shoved the 3/4 poly down there instead. You need to find the paperwork that came with the birm filter so find out the flow requirements and see if your pump is capable of meeting them. I doubt it is. Birm is a heavy meadia that requires a lot of flow to lift and clean the bed. The filter will have the specifications for it that tell you what gpm you need to backflush it. Most shallow well jet pumps, even if they have a good water supply will have a hard time backwashing birm. IOW, buying the birm filter was a mistake.

Click to expand...

Expensive mistake then on my part However, I did have the system installed Rent-to-own. I have until May to pay in full for all of my payments to go toward the purchase, after that I will lose half of my payments going forward to rental fee. But I really don't want to give it up. The water from the Lindyspring System is wonderful. So now my question is what is the best case scenario for flowrate on my setup? If I drive a new point to the original casing size, would that be a significant help. I am really hoping for ideas to make this setup better.

Maybe there is a market for a filter controller that could do 5 or 10 2-minute 5-GPM or 10-GPM backwashes with recovery time in between.

nltaylor32 said:

Expensive mistake then on my part However, I did have the system installed Rent-to-own. I have until May to pay in full for all of my payments to go toward the purchase, after that I will lose half of my payments going forward to rental fee. But I really don't want to give it up. The water from the Lindyspring System is wonderful. So now my question is what is the best case scenario for flowrate on my setup? If I drive a new point to the original casing size, would that be a significant help. I am really hoping for ideas to make this setup better.

Click to expand...

I can't say and neither can anyone else. Obviously the PO had problems with the point and that was his best solution. Realistically if you want better water you will probably need a better source. I have reservations as to wether a sand point will be satisfactory given the operational parameters of your filtration and pump set up. If you have the money, have a well drilled with a submersible pump. If not......get rid of the filter and liv with the iron.

Tom Sawyer said:

I can't say and neither can anyone else. Obviously the PO had problems with the point and that was his best solution. Realistically if you want better water you will probably need a better source. I have reservations as to wether a sand point will be satisfactory given the operational parameters of your filtration and pump set up. If you have the money, have a well drilled with a submersible pump. If not......get rid of the filter and liv with the iron.

Click to expand...

Tom Sawyer, thank you for all of your insight.

You could also go with a storage or cistern type tank with a booster pump. That way you have as much peak volume as you need for short periods of time.

There is a chance that if you get a deep well drilled that you won't need the iron filter.

valveman said:

You could also go with a storage or cistern type tank with a booster pump. That way you have as much peak volume as you need for short periods of time.

Click to expand...

If the iron is that high it will muck up the holding tank and have to be cleaned periodically which would really suck.

Tom Sawyer said:

If the iron is that high it will muck up the holding tank and have to be cleaned periodically which would really suck.

Click to expand...

You are probably right about that. Before the filter was installed, standing water in the toilet tanks would scum up pretty quickly.

Is it possible to filter the water as it goes into a storage tank? That way you would have a tank full of clean water to flush filters or use at the house as required.

he could inject chlorine into the (a) holding tank which will precipitate the iron but then that tank needs to be drained / backflushed which could be done with the untreated water and finally run through a GAC filter but, a lot of money and constant maintenance.

The iron filter could be placed before the storage but doing so would require solenoids to "flip" the supply over to the filtered water for backwashing. Not sure if that particular head has the option for an external relay drive.

Tom Sawyer said:

I would bet that originally the galvanized pipe was the point and it failed so someone shoved the 3/4 poly down there instead. You need to find the paperwork that came with the birm filter so find out the flow requirements and see if your pump is capable of meeting them. I doubt it is. Birm is a heavy meadia that requires a lot of flow to lift and clean the bed. The filter will have the specifications for it that tell you what gpm you need to backflush it. Most shallow well jet pumps, even if they have a good water supply will have a hard time backwashing birm. IOW, buying the birm filter was a mistake.

Click to expand...

According to the installer the birm filter requires approx. 5 gpm for backwash. The pump is capable of achieving that at 1-1/4 intake. (I am currently reduced to 3/4). So I think a sand point will accommodate but I need to get the intake up to 1-1/4". Any suggestions. Can I pull the current point, and drive a new one in the same location?

Some of the other suggestions are getting a bit creative for my likes, but thanks for everyone's imput

I would drive a new point in a new location. The current one may have a busted coupler which may be why they didn't just connect straight to the casing.

If the new one still doesn't supply the GPM, then you can drive a third one and run them in parallel.