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Thread: Answer on waterproofing showers for Roberto Birtulescu of EuroCerob - Montreal

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by nukeman
    Your 2" flood test puts a whopping 0.075 psi on that connection (possibly a bit more depending on the exact no-hub fitting location). So, if it leaks during your test, you know it is loose, but if it doesn't leak during your test, you don't know that it is tight either.
    I could also say that there is also a specific torque requirement for the no-hub fitting . If it is respected , normally it should be fine . Over torquing it may damage the interlocking housing for proper tension which ensure a positive seal .
    Last edited by eurob; 01-05-2014 at 07:14 PM.
    Roberto

  2. #32
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:34 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  3. #33
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:34 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  4. #34
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
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    Me thinks you need to read the code, eh? I posted the link to the code and even gave the section number. The state plumbing code here is based on IPC, but UPC and other ones that I've read are similar regarding the 10' water column. Nobody said that you needed to put 10' of water in the shower to test (although it would work if you could contain it). What you do instead is to take the "wrong" test plug that Roberto used to cap the drain. Then you inset a test ball/balloon downstream of the shower to block the connection. Then you just fill 'er up with water to the top of the vent. If there are no leaks at the fitting over a period of 15 minutes, you are done with that test. For someone who always says that minimum code isn't enough, people are lazy, etc., it seems silly to skip this step.

    This is, of course, separate from the flood test. If the plumbing is planned correctly, maybe you spend and extra 20-30 minutes to do this test, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the 72hr flood tests that you are so fond of.

    Maybe your inspectors do care that this connection is untested, but it is still untested with your method. Show me in your code where 2" of head is enough to test a connection since you seem to have all of the answers...

    As I mentioned already, some locations will want toilet flanges and shower drains installed at the rough just for this very issue. Otherwise, these connections never get tested (usually). If you want to at least follow the intent of the code, you will listen to what I am saying. If you want to continue taking shortcuts and telling yourself and others that you are testing this connection, that is fine too. Point is, you got on Roberto for his test plug, but it is no worse than your setup. Neither one actually tests the joint. Both ways test the pan. Simple as that.

    I just love how you always tell people that they are wrong, but never back it up with fact...

  5. #35
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    John is very good at twisting words, or jumping to unfounded assumptions. But, he cannot take any criticism himself. To grow, one needs to listen and learn...nobody knows everything, and many of the 'old' ways have been proven wrong. This is one reason the codes are reviewed and updated at least yearly. IOW, if you continue to do it the 'old' way, it may not be enough. On the other hand, something that really HAS worked for eons, does not necessarily need to be updated, nor should it, potentially causing unknown or unwanted consequences. Some of the 'new' technology makes it easier and less expensive. Take how tile was set hundreds of years ago...lots of it is still intact and has been for centuries. Over the time, we've come up with alternatives as material technology advances. IN fact, some of them are not as good, but many are, and they are certainly easier!

    It is particularly frustrating that John does not see this. There is often more than one way to do something and have it work reliably. Everyone has their favorites, but realizes that variations on that theme may call for alternate solutions. John's heavy-handed, multi-layer approach is both costly and time-consuming, and in most cases totally unnecessary if the 'rules' are followed. By this time, one would hope he has enough experience and skill to do things 'right', and not require all of those redundant 'enhancements'. There are thousands of quality installers out there that do not have failures that do not follow John's lead. There are also a set of those that have been doing it that way forever, and not seen the consequences of their actions since many of them don't tend to show up for at least several years afterwards, if not longer - IOW, some do not 'follow the rules', and their projects are subject to problems. Certainly, depending on your desires and needs, different methods have their benefits and detractions (such as surface waterproofing verses a conventional shower), but done properly, they each can be long-lasting and problem free.

    The TCNA has numerous approved, tested procedures on how to do most anything related to tiling...any of those, done properly, will result in a long-lasting, problem free solution, and not require the 'extras' John consistently touts as being 'required'. Maybe he needs to get on the TCNA committee and argue his points - I think they'd laugh him out of there, but that's an opinion. If failures were so pervasive, when one does not follow John's lead, the procedures and policies would change to mirror them.

    Over the years, I've learned huge amounts from interacting on various forums, including this one and at www.johnbridge.com. Some of the advice is blatantly wrong, some is misguided, but the vast majority of it is right. A well-moderated forum does not allow wrong info to persist, whether that is pointed out by an actual moderator, or someone else with correct information, or by having the wrong info removed. Sometimes, it is just a variation on an alternate solution.

    From following postings by many of the pros here, and the fact that many people do not search and research similar problems, the same questions get asked time and time again. After you've heard the pros answer that same question numerous times, it is not all that hard to post a solution. That I may have more time to check, and therefore answer some of those questions, is one reason why I have the number of posts that I do. Remember, the idea here is to try to both learn, and to help those that ask for it. John feels he has to preach his methods, and display his projects as shining examples...as I've said, most people are not in the market for the types of things John does for others as a pro. Most people coming here cannot afford a pro to do their project, and are looking for how to make it work. I try to guide them to one or more of the approved methods...John thinks his is the only way. On that, it appears, we will always differ.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple
    The drywall crew is banging out the basement and the owner has asked me to come and train them on tile setting a few visits next month.
    I've never seen any CPC or NBC or ....any tile and stone PRO do that . You may call yourself what you want , maybe a waterproofer perhaps , but you want last more than a day with PROS ....... DRIP.....DRIP......DRip...............gone.

    To use such a language --- not even schools teach so much negative thinking --- is disgusting .....just typing it feels the need to leave . But I won't prove you right .......I will continue to show up .

    Whatever tips , methods , different ways of thinking I and others showed you , just get tossed and back to ...... who does it better than me . Look in the mirror and reevaluate some of your deep beliefs...... you are not alone and if you are the only one knowing how to waterproof .......oh man the world is in deep s.......

    You lure people to exchange ---- NOT --- opinions or ways of doing , just to pursue them and inject your narrow thinking ---- oh no , waterproofing methods ..... flooding testing ...... give me a break ........


    Quote Originally Posted by johnwhipple
    I love how you try and sound like you know what your talking about - after the fact you show an improper flood test. Lets not forget you just agreed flood tests need 10' of water in them…. How high do you build your curbs? Do you include ladders in your shower builds? LOL
    Maybe I do , but then again back to your whining .... flood test not correct . How high the curbs ..... 10' so you cannot climb over to see what I am up to . I would also not give you my ladder which I am using to build up curbs .

    It is not even funny ....... but I am getting warmed up .
    Last edited by eurob; 01-06-2014 at 06:15 PM.
    Roberto

  7. #37
    DIY Senior Member Vegas_sparky's Avatar
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    And I thought electricians were bad. LOL

    You guys are gonna cause a shortage of popcorn.

  8. #38
    DIY Member Justadrip's Avatar
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    Whipple is just coming to the conclusion that his very abrasive/confrontational/I'm a know-it-all attitude has relegated himself to this forum. Albiet a good forum for plumbers...its not a tile forum. If he was less "me me me, I I I", he might still be a member in good standing with the big boys.
    Yeah I know John, you "quit" the JB forum. Just after they banned you. By your online attitude you have no credibility in the tile world among your peers. What you say to the uninformed masses might be gospel to them but sorry to say the real tile setters think differently. Keep giving your one day tile setting classes to the drywallers.
    Last edited by Justadrip; 01-06-2014 at 07:06 PM.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by nukeman
    I posted the link to the code and even gave the section number. The state plumbing code here is based on IPC, but UPC and other ones that I've read are similar regarding the 10' water column. Nobody said that you needed to put 10' of water in the shower to test (although it would work if you could contain it).
    I found similar literature Nukeman . Thanks again .

    http://books.google.ca/books?id=T5bk...ection&f=false
    Roberto

  10. #40
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  11. #41
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #42
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  13. #43
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Plumbing Officials Association of British Columbia - Interpertations of Code

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  14. #44
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
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    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  15. #45
    DIY Member Justadrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whipple
    It's pretty clear the boys here are upset. It is clear to me that I'm debating with fools.
    You have just proved my point.
    Don't hate the player,hate the game.

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