(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 54

Thread: Tile detaching from Wedi shower pan

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member MGT_M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8

    Default Tile detaching from Wedi shower pan

    Hello-
    In 2008 we put in a shower with Wedi board walls and a Wedi Fundo shower pan. The walls are fine, but the hex tiles keep detaching from one area of the shower pan. I've already retiled the area once. My husband thinks the shower pan is flexing under his 220 lb weight and this is making the tiles pop off. I don't know if that's the problem or not.
    What can I do?

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,960
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Wedi Technical Support - Bastian Lohmann Re: Tiles Detaching from Wedi Shower Pan

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:37 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member MGT_M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Hi John,
    The shower is over a 3/4" plywood subfloor. I know the mortar was a modified thinset but I don't know about self-curing. The problem is about halfway between the center of the shower and the wall. It's where my husband stands when he showers. FYI there is no trace of a a leak anywhere. I can go under the house and look at the area and the shower drainpipe and its entirely dry.


    Thanks for Bastian's email. I remember talking with him back when we were getting ready to install the shower, but I'd forgotten. I will email him.

    Also-- would using a flexible urethane grout help?
    Thanks for your advice.

  4. #4
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,960
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Fixing a de-bonded Wedi shower pan

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:37 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  5. #5
    DIY Junior Member MGT_M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8

    Default

    I wrote to Bastian.

    About the flexture-- what I mean is that since the Wedi is a foam, perhaps it compresses a tiny bit under a large load, causing a localized flexing.
    Anyway, I'll see what Bastian has to say.

    Thainks

  6. #6
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,382

    Default

    THe Wedi manual calls for an epoxy grout when tiles are smaller than 2x2. If this is the same shower discussed at Tile Your World, you have small hex tile. Page 12 http://us.wedi.de/_shared/_pdf/us/we...undo_Primo.pdf

    Schluter says the compressive strength of their foam pan once covered with suitable tile and grouted is 500psi. Small tile can be an issue if you break the grout joint...standard grout, especially unsanded, isn't the strongest. I've read stories of people that used epoxy grout in the corners of showers, and rather than the grout cracking, it cracked the tile (industry standards call for caulk at changes of plane). Haven't heard what Wedi's compressive strength is. Epoxy grout should make the tile act more like a big one, and may solve your problem. Foam works, but has some limitations.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #7
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,960
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:37 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  8. #8
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,960
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default John Bridge Tile Forum Discussion On: Tile Coming Off Wedi Shower Pan

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:37 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  9. #9
    DIY Junior Member MGT_M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8

    Default

    The tile size issue could explain some things, but I don't think they were giving warnings about that in 2008. I am pretty good at following instructions and I put a lot of consideration into what kind of tile I used. But, maybe I did miss it.

    But now I think I have discovered a worse problem that could be the origin of all the troubles. My husband cleaned the shower and removed all the loose tiles. In one place there was a small puffed up area that flexed a lot when pressed on. And pressing on it caused tiny air bubbles to come up through a pinhole in the thinset! (The tiles are gone, but the thinset and mesh from the tile piece are still there, adhered to the Wedi.) I finally determined that the black, outer layer of the Wedi is separating from the blue inner layer, at least in that area. Water is getting in between the two Wedi layers. Obviously this is bad.

    Bastian emailed me back right away last night. He says it is still under warranty and he is sending a tech down to look at it! This amazes me, because I am by no means local to them.

    So, we will see what happens!

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member MGT_M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Also I can't find my original discussion from years ago! I'll keep looking. I also must dig out the original reciepts, etc.
    Thanks for your help and support.

  11. #11
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,960
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default Air Bubbles Squishing out of a Wedi Shower Pan: Trouble Shooting popping tiles

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:37 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #12

    Default

    The "expert tile witness" is here.

    I tend to go along with what Jim said about small tiles on foam floors. I'm afraid I'm not able to add anything.
    John Bridge, Ceramic Tile Setter :-)

    http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php

  13. #13
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,960
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default John Bridge: Expert Tile Witness on Wedi Shower Pan Tile Debonding Issues

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:37 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  14. #14
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,960
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:37 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  15. #15
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple View Post
    With all the "Experts" (more sarcasm) over there you would have thought one would have caught on to the fact the tile size did not jive with the Wedi Shower Pan.

    If there is issues with tile size then we must think that the compression is a factor.
    What did they say if you recall? To think that Epoxy Grout is going to save an install I think is ridiculous.
    How strong is typical grout? Especially unsanded? Nowhere near as strong as a typical tile, especially a porcelain tile. How strong is typical epoxy grout? MUCH stronger than regular tile. How well does epoxy bond to porcelain? Very well.

    If you take a piece of foam and put say a piece of plywood over it...you can load it down and probably never with typical loads, ever compress it any. Now, take a small tile, step on it with your heel over the foam...it will likely get indented into the foam. So, it isn't a very big stretch that if you can tie the tile together so they act as a single, large, monolithic slab, compression at a point from a tile that was broken off from the grout shouldn't be too big of a stretch...but, John appears to not be able to see that. FWIW, in some places they are using FOAM as the core of bridge abutments. These are bridges for cars and trucks...if you spread the load properly over the surface, it is plenty strong enough, and doesn't have the variables of on-site fill materials and compaction by operators. Again, I'll repeat what Schluter says about their foam tray: once the membrane and tile are installed and grouted, the compressive strength is 500#/sqin. Wedi may not be as robust, but once you tile the rigid tiled surface to it and to each other, it should be plenty strong. Small tile, apparently from experience, (now?) come with the restriction to use epoxy to overcome that limitation. So, from a repair viewpoint, makes sense to follow their recommendations.

    And, if you read carefully, I did point out exactly where Wedi specifies using epoxy grout on small tile in post #6, but maybe, just because I wrote it, John discounts everything in it. To make it easier, here is that instruction from their installation manual, the emphasis is mine:
    " System must not be installed over uneven or non-load bearing substrates. System must not be exposed to temperatures over 165 F. Tiles smaller than 2 x 2” should be grouted with epoxy grout (with one exception being pebblestones). Do not install system over substrates subject to settlement and extreme movement. Two horizontal backing layers of 2 x 4” are recommended to guard the perimeter of wedi Fundo Primo and wedi building panel transition against separation movement."

    So, since tile tend to break or debond for several reasons, it could be movement of the substrate or tipping problems because the tile need to be tied together when they aren't large enough to spread the load evenly for a point load.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

Similar Threads

  1. Using Wedi Board With Swanstone Shower Pan
    By DanMcD in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-17-2012, 07:00 AM
  2. Waterproofing Walls for Neo Angle Shower Using Wedi Board
    By DanMcD in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-21-2012, 06:06 AM
  3. WEDI walk-in shower base construction
    By danboston in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 03:03 PM
  4. wedi vs kerdi system
    By sue4072 in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-26-2010, 08:09 PM
  5. Wedi
    By theslosk in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-29-2008, 10:03 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •