Got water test results back...recommended treatment?

stockman20 · Feb 4, 2014

ditttohead said:
Bleach is commonly used to oxidize iron, or to change it from a dissolved ferrous state to a solid ferric state. Once it is in the ferric state, it can be filtered out with standard filtration, typically in the 5 micron range is adequate. Oxidized iron in your pipes can be a ferric build-up. Using bleach can further lock the iron into the pipes. The same way bleach does not work well at removing iron stains from a sink, but a mild acid does it with ease. Once bleached, the iron can be much harder to dissolve and can give the appearance of having cleaned the pipes. Some people recommend using iron cleaners, CLR, etc for this process, it will work, but from a simple liability standpoint, vinegar is the preferred method. Using an edible item for cleaning makes for a much safer cleaning process. Vinegar takes a little longer, but it is very effective. A one time cleaning with a mild acid will not damage copper pipe that is in good condition. Just like the copper heat exchanger in a tankless water heater, intermittent cleaning will not hurt it.

Hope this helps.

Great info, thanks!

Edit: Ditto - forgot to ask if you could recommend a dosage amount for white vinegar?

Gary Slusser · Feb 7, 2014

stockman20 said:
The verdict is still out on this one, but I bought a Hach iron test kit and tested my water last night. Results show between 0-0.20ppm. Hach explained to me that showing a reading of 0ppm is basically impossible since techically I could have 0.0000001ppm of iron - so I guess my test result is as good as it gets.

I need to wait a couple more weeks before I confirm that the staining has not returned, however I have thought of another question for this forum.

After adding/replacing equipment to remove iron do the pipes in a house need to be cleaned? As in, is it possible that there is iron built up in my copper pipes that now needs to somehow be removed so that staining does not return? If so, how is this done?

Thanks!

If the actual test result is 0.0-0.2 I wouldn't do anything now but watch if there is a problem after using the water for awhile. Then if there is a problem I'd find a way to run vinegar through the lines by running the kitchen cold water faucet into a large glass as I bent over to the rim of the glass and smelled the air coming out of the glass for vinegar. When you smell vinegar, shut off the faucet. Then do the same at each cold faucet in the bathrooms and flushing each toilet. Then let it sit with no water use for like 30 minutes, then run each faucet for like 10 seconds, flush each toilet and use up the first amount of vinegar, then I'd repeat the process the 2nd time. If the water gets rusty looking you know it's working, although with vinegar it might not. When done run the water at all faucets and flush all toilets to get rid of the vinegar.

A disposable cartridge filter housing, after the softener, without the cartridge is a good way to get the vinegar into the plumbing.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

ditttohead · Feb 7, 2014

Agreed, vinegar is a little weak, but if their is iron it will remove some of it. Stronger acids will work faster, but the obvious safety considerations should be considered. We use vinegar in tankless water heaters but we also increase the "energy" by recirculating it which removes scale deposits fairly easily. Scale is a lot easier to remove than iron build up. Running the clean iron free water through the pipes will usually be adequate to get good water results in time. At my old house, the worst time was after the water sat over the weekend in the pipes when we were travelling. You couldnt see the bottom of the bathtub through 4 inches of water. It did eventually clear up. let us know what you do and how it works.

stockman20 · Feb 7, 2014

Thanks Ditto and Gary.

I plan on using the housing on the whole-house filter as a means to mix vinegar into my water. Do I need to bypass the new softener first, or can I run the vinegar through it? Gary - I know you mentioned using a filter AFTER the softener, but I don't have one - just the WHF before.

Gary Slusser · Feb 8, 2014

I would move the housing to after the softener or, by pass the softener but.... for a one time use I'd by pass the softener and leave the housing where it is without a cartridge in it. By passing the softener will allow any iron past the softener and probably cause you to repeat the vinegar process twice after getting vinegar all through the house instead of just once.

I suggest you only do the cold water. And if you wanted to, you could run Iron Out instead of vinegar. Either way when done, flush out all fixtures (1-2 minutes each) and all toilets (3-4 flushes). Make sure no one sues any water from the start until you are done flushing out all fixtures etc. of whatever you've used.

ditttohead · Feb 8, 2014

Iron out would work, but like Gary said, use caution, this stuff works for a reason.

Sodium carbonate 497-19-8 3 - 7
Sodium hydrosulfite 7775-14-6 15 - 40
Sodium metabisulfite 7681-57-4 15 - 40
Citric acid 77-92-9 1 - 5
Sodium sulfite 7757-83-7 0.5 - 1.5
Sodium bisulfite 7631-90-5 0.1 - 1

You could also use a simple citric acid, it is USP grade and fairly cheap. It is commonly used for lowering pH in smaller water systems through injection.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#citric-acid/=qluea4
Less than $40 for a 5 pound pail, not too bad. I am sure you could find it much cheaper elsewhere. I just like McMaster Carr!

stockman20 · Feb 11, 2014

Ran Iron Out through my cold pipes last weekend. I bypassed the softener. I couldn't believe the color of the water coming through the faucets and toilets. I let it sit for about 30 minutes before flushing. I will probably repeat in a week or two after installing a new water heater. Gary - you said cold water only - why don't you recommened running through hot pipes? I imagine my hot water pipes are even worse than the cold because the heater is so old (27 years) and is probably caked with iron. Thanks!

Reach4 · Feb 11, 2014

stockman20 said:
Ran Iron Out through my cold pipes last weekend. I bypassed the softener. I couldn't believe the color of the water coming through the faucets and toilets.

Nice!

It would be interesting if you could figure a way to circulate iron-out solution through your pipes with a small utility pump.

Mikey · Feb 11, 2014

Reach4 said:
It would be interesting if you could figure a way to circulate iron-out solution through your pipes with a small utility pump.

You could do that with a bit of plumbing at each fixture, along the lines of the several hot-water recirculating systems out there.

Reach4 · Feb 11, 2014

How about one of these pumping from a bucket under a faucet through a garden hose into a laundry tub faucet or some other threaded faucet?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Pentair-Pump-FPDMP21SA-P2-Self-Priming-Drill-Pump/21797561

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=utility+pump

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Superior-Pump-1-4-HP-Utility-Pump/15125714

Mikey · Feb 12, 2014

That would work but where does the cleaning fluid go? Ideally, you'd like to recirculate it through the pipes for a while, then dump it and refill the pipes with fresh water. I'd first cross-connect the hot and cold supply lines with a valve at each fixture. For each fixture to be flushed, open the valve. Then, at the water heater, fill a bucket with the cleaning solution, and use one of those little sump pumps in the bucket to pump the solution up the cold pipe, and return the outflow from the hot pipe to the bucket. When the bucket looks appropriately disgusting, replace with fresh solution and continue. When you're satisfied, pump fresh water and dispose of the outflow via a drain or by dumping the bucket somewhere. This way you could do any individual fixture, or all fixtures at once, and easily keep an eye on your progress. Toilets are tougher, since there's no convenient return line at the fixture, but that's easy to jury-rig.

Gary Slusser · Feb 12, 2014

The reason I don't include the hot side is one, the iron is usually settled to the bottom of the water heater and if you were draining (some) and flushing the tank periodically as suggested in its manual

)), you would get rid of that plus, adding enough product to remove all the rust in the water heater to be able to get enough into the hot water lines would take more than most guys would want to use or take the time to do it.

And no one yet knows there is rust in the hot water plumbing.

Mikey · Feb 13, 2014

Gary Slusser said:
...the iron is usually settled to the bottom of the water heater...

Good point. When I bought this house, it had been built about 18 years prior, and the (electric) water heater wouldn't drain a drop (untreated shallow well water). A couple years later, I replaced the WH and just for fun cut it open. I wish I had taken pictures -- it was packed with solid crud to within an inch or two of the lower element. Iron-colored muddy crud, with God knows what else mixed in. Now, even with treated (Cl, C, softener) water from a new deep well, I drain the WH once a year.

stockman20 · Feb 13, 2014

Gary Slusser said:
to remove all the rust in the water heater to be able to get enough into the hot water lines would take more than most guys would want to use or take the time to do it.

My plan is to do this after I get a new heater installed. That way I'll be running the SIO through a rustless heater and might be able to take some out of the pipes. I'll probably switch to pilot and let the water cool before doing so.

Gary Slusser · Feb 13, 2014

What I forgot to mention is that getting the IO out of the water heater and plumbing is not easy unless you totally drain the heater and then flush it multiple times, and an older heater may not allow you to get all the IO out for some weeks etc..

So IMO using IO for the hot side of the plumbing is a bad idea. Especially if you don't have a proven reason like rusty hot water to cause you to do it. Rust, ferric, insouble red water iron is not going to cause staining, ferrous, clear water, soluble iron does. And rust in water lines usually does not cause any problems unless you shut off the water and drain the lines and allow the rust to dry out, then when you turn the water on a lot of the dusty rust is flushed out and once you get clear water, there usually is no more problem (except in the minds of some).

stockman20 · Feb 13, 2014

Gary Slusser said:
What I forgot to mention is that getting the IO out of the water heater and plumbing is not easy unless you totally drain the heater and then flush it multiple times, and an older heater may not allow you to get all the IO out for some weeks etc..

So IMO using IO for the hot side of the plumbing is a bad idea. Especially if you don't have a proven reason like rusty hot water to cause you to do it. Rust, ferric, insouble red water iron is not going to cause staining, ferrous, clear water, soluble iron does. And rust in water lines usually does not cause any problems unless you shut off the water and drain the lines and allow the rust to dry out, then when you turn the water on a lot of the dusty rust is flushed out and once you get clear water, there usually is no more problem (except in the minds of some).

Great info, thanks!

stockman20 · Feb 19, 2014

Gary,
Do you have any recommendations for cycle times on a 2.5cuft - given my water conditions? I've scowered the web and can't find any info on this.

The defaults on my Autotrol 255 are: 1st backwash 14 minutes; 1st fast rinse 5 minutes; 2nd backwash 1 minute; 2nd fast rinse 1 minute.

Thanks again,

Gary Slusser · Feb 19, 2014

I didn't look up your water test results but I would never use those settings. For clear raw water, backwash would be 10-12 minutes, brine/slow rinse 45-60, 2nd BW 5 (if I used it at all) rapid/fast rinse 6-8 minutes.

Justin Lofton · Feb 4, 2019

I know this thread is pretty old but I've been talking to the folks over at Quality Water Treatment and I'm ready to pull the trigger on a Softpro water softener system with an extra iron filter. Has anyone bought this system before? Seems like a killer system but wanted to get feedback before dropping close to $1500.

ditttohead · Feb 5, 2019

IMHO, get a real Fleck or Clack Valve, not a Chinese knockoff. Ignore the marketing.

Got water test results back...recommended treatment?

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