jbrinker
New Member
Here's my situation, Ive been lurking on this board for literally years. Im not a plumbing or HVAC expert by any stretch, but in getting quotes for my new remodel project, I realized that I have a better handle on some of this boiler tech and so on from reading this (and other) boards than some of the installers that I have talked to. So Id love to get a firm handle on the "right way" to do what I want to do before going any further.
Location: Near Syracuse, NY. ODT -4F (Lets call it 0F)
The house: 1994 built 2-story colonial. 2x6" r-19 exterior walls, plywood sheathing, housewrap, vinyl siding, 1994 vintage Peachtree double pane windows.
1st floor: 1400 sq ft.
Two zones - dining room/living room/powder room - 28' fin/tube; and Livingroom (cathedral ceilings)/Kitchen/Mudroom - 34' fin/tube.
2nd floor: 1100 sq ft.
Two zones - Front of house is master bedroom and bath - 24' fin/tube, other zone is back of house - 3 kids bedrooms and bath - 30' fin/tube.
Basement - 1400 sq ft.
NO heat currently. Insulated with 2" Polyisocyanurate a couple years back, and even with no heat it is pretty comfortable. I intend to add a single zone to the basement with this remodel. Flooring will be probably laminate, figured on more baseboard.
Current boiler is a powervented 1994 Buderus G124 on Natural gas. Has been bullet-proof. I added outdoor reset control three seasons ago and it short-cycles a lot less now and the house if far more comfortable (less temp swing). Hot water provided by a powervented Bradford White 50 gal tank (1 year old). Plumbing for heat is all 3/4" copper, controls are a basic 5-zone controller, 4 wire zone valves, and the outdoor reset.
The situation: I inherited some money, and have always wanted to actually finish off this basement. It has a LOT of potential. So now I can afford to do it. However, the boiler and HW tank take up a large area (6' x 13') at one end of the basement. Stupid placement. I want to replace the cast iron Buderus with a wall-mounted unit located more centrally, and move the HW tank to the same spot. Space is a premium. I have an area about 3.5' x 6' to work with for both, its on an exterior wall - so through wall venting will not be a problem. Basement ceiling is open, and I have access to the entire 1st floor. Plumbing for heat is all 3/4" copper. I am looking to hire out most of this job, but I do have the skills to help or do part of it myself.
After reading another recent thread on here (https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?53196-Is-a-TriangleTube-Prestige-Trimax-Excellence-PTE-110-the-right-one-of-the-job) I got to thinking about the boiler sizing. Everyone so far is recommending a Mod/Con wall mounted, about the same output as the Buderus. After reading the other thread, I wonder that is probably a BAD idea. I might be better off looking at adding radiation (or more tube/fin), and going smaller. Thinking about my current boiler - it doesn't short cycle TOO much but it does sometimes. And it has all that mass of iron and water. A new mod/con will have little mass, and I would think it would short cycle more.
In most of the rooms/loops I could add about 50% more tube/fin with little work (just go wall to wall instead of under windows for example). Basement I can just add what is needed as part of the remodel.
Was also thinking that I could combine the whole downstairs into one big loop, or feed both loops off the same manifold and balance flow with a ball valve? Could also do the same upstairs? We really dont "differ" the zones much on each floor anyway. (We do have different setpoints and setbacks for upstairs/downstairs)
Questions:
1) Is this whole idea nuts? I really, really want to reclaim this space if I spend the $$ on the whole basement remodel. I do not have room for the Buderus where it would need to go. Has to be smaller by about 1/2 with tight clearance allowed.
2) Assuming its doable, can you guys help me with some back-of-the envelope calculations like you did the guy in the other thread? Last thing I want to do is wind up with an oversized system preforming WORSE than the one it is replacing (which is actually quite comfortable now that I put the outdoor reset in).
I can get more specifics if it will help. Im trying to enter all the info into Slant/Fin's online Manual J calculator app, to see how those numbers wind up looking. Thats only the first part of the process as I now realize...
Thanks in advance!
Jeff
(also looking for installer reccomendations in this area - Syracuse and areas west)
Location: Near Syracuse, NY. ODT -4F (Lets call it 0F)
The house: 1994 built 2-story colonial. 2x6" r-19 exterior walls, plywood sheathing, housewrap, vinyl siding, 1994 vintage Peachtree double pane windows.
1st floor: 1400 sq ft.
Two zones - dining room/living room/powder room - 28' fin/tube; and Livingroom (cathedral ceilings)/Kitchen/Mudroom - 34' fin/tube.
2nd floor: 1100 sq ft.
Two zones - Front of house is master bedroom and bath - 24' fin/tube, other zone is back of house - 3 kids bedrooms and bath - 30' fin/tube.
Basement - 1400 sq ft.
NO heat currently. Insulated with 2" Polyisocyanurate a couple years back, and even with no heat it is pretty comfortable. I intend to add a single zone to the basement with this remodel. Flooring will be probably laminate, figured on more baseboard.
Current boiler is a powervented 1994 Buderus G124 on Natural gas. Has been bullet-proof. I added outdoor reset control three seasons ago and it short-cycles a lot less now and the house if far more comfortable (less temp swing). Hot water provided by a powervented Bradford White 50 gal tank (1 year old). Plumbing for heat is all 3/4" copper, controls are a basic 5-zone controller, 4 wire zone valves, and the outdoor reset.
The situation: I inherited some money, and have always wanted to actually finish off this basement. It has a LOT of potential. So now I can afford to do it. However, the boiler and HW tank take up a large area (6' x 13') at one end of the basement. Stupid placement. I want to replace the cast iron Buderus with a wall-mounted unit located more centrally, and move the HW tank to the same spot. Space is a premium. I have an area about 3.5' x 6' to work with for both, its on an exterior wall - so through wall venting will not be a problem. Basement ceiling is open, and I have access to the entire 1st floor. Plumbing for heat is all 3/4" copper. I am looking to hire out most of this job, but I do have the skills to help or do part of it myself.
After reading another recent thread on here (https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?53196-Is-a-TriangleTube-Prestige-Trimax-Excellence-PTE-110-the-right-one-of-the-job) I got to thinking about the boiler sizing. Everyone so far is recommending a Mod/Con wall mounted, about the same output as the Buderus. After reading the other thread, I wonder that is probably a BAD idea. I might be better off looking at adding radiation (or more tube/fin), and going smaller. Thinking about my current boiler - it doesn't short cycle TOO much but it does sometimes. And it has all that mass of iron and water. A new mod/con will have little mass, and I would think it would short cycle more.
In most of the rooms/loops I could add about 50% more tube/fin with little work (just go wall to wall instead of under windows for example). Basement I can just add what is needed as part of the remodel.
Was also thinking that I could combine the whole downstairs into one big loop, or feed both loops off the same manifold and balance flow with a ball valve? Could also do the same upstairs? We really dont "differ" the zones much on each floor anyway. (We do have different setpoints and setbacks for upstairs/downstairs)
Questions:
1) Is this whole idea nuts? I really, really want to reclaim this space if I spend the $$ on the whole basement remodel. I do not have room for the Buderus where it would need to go. Has to be smaller by about 1/2 with tight clearance allowed.
2) Assuming its doable, can you guys help me with some back-of-the envelope calculations like you did the guy in the other thread? Last thing I want to do is wind up with an oversized system preforming WORSE than the one it is replacing (which is actually quite comfortable now that I put the outdoor reset in).
I can get more specifics if it will help. Im trying to enter all the info into Slant/Fin's online Manual J calculator app, to see how those numbers wind up looking. Thats only the first part of the process as I now realize...
Thanks in advance!
Jeff
(also looking for installer reccomendations in this area - Syracuse and areas west)
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