TOTO Ultramax 2 with bidet seat vs Kohler Gabrielle K-3825

we are putting in new plumbing and want bidet function for the ensuites. The kohler gabrielle 3825 comes with a c3 201 bidet seat with remote. In the picture i can't see where the power cord is...does it come off the side of the seat? or is it behind the toilet? The kohler has class five flush and good online reviews for service. Does anyone have experience with this toilet system? Is the toto dual cyclone flush superior to kohler class five? The toto toilet has good reviews for flushing but poor online reviews for service. We are in the provience of ontario in canada, does that make a difference? The toto washlet seat people say stains easily and the remote is unattractive; so i will probably look at a different bidet seat. Which would you guys pick?

I have a personal bias against Kohler. While some of their products are quite nice, I disagree with their philosophy - they are a 'not invented here' company. They seem to be constantly changing their designs, often, it seems, just to be different, not necessarily better (does one really need five tries to get a toilet that flushes well? - BTW, there is no industry standard on that, Kohler's class 5 is just a marketing thing, not comparable to anything else in the industry, IOW, there is no standard). As a result of this, their parts book looks like a phone book...most other's change the trim, and have a quality, reliable, easily replaced working part guts so you can actually find replacement parts when it becomes necessary.

Some people don't like the shape of the Toto toilet seats, personally, I find them fine. As to how they work, I think Toto is more reliable. Their dual-cyclone flush is easy to clean, cleans the bowl well, and is reliable. Depending on what you are replacing, keep in mind some of the very old toilets used 3-5x as much water, and yes, they cleaned themselves better than the new ones...a side effect of the water conservation, where the newer ones only use 1.6g or even less, depending on where you live, and your local rules. I've not had issues with my Totos, but some of that is also dependent on diet.

Kohler has some designs that force the waste to turn a sharp 90-degrees at the outlet, Toto's trap design is much more symmetrical. This may or may not be an issue...it is often fairly easy to see if you view the toilet from the side. Some are worse than others.

But, everyone's different, and you may or may not experience any issues with one. FWIW, the MAP tests are a somewhat artificial test procedure...the originator of that test says anything over 500g is great. They flush plastic-wrapped paste, not exactly like the real thing, and some manufacturers optimized their results for this test, and they may not clean as well. The test does not indicate how well it cleans the bowl, only on how much goes down the drain.




KOHLER K-8298-0 C3 155 Elongated Warm Water Bidet Toilet Seat, White with Quiet-Close Lid and Seat, Automatic Deodorization, Self-Cleaning Wand, Adjustable Water Pressure, Nightlight, Heated Seat

thank you, the only reason we were looking at kohler was because we were looking at the kohler karbon faucet for the kitchen and thought we might get a better deal if we used the same throughout the house. But i think ill get toto toilets. Do you have the same poor view of kohler in regards to their faucets?

Essentially, yes. I'm not saying they make bad products (although every brand has a few). Kohler changes their designs quite frequently, and thus, sometimes, it can be a major problem finding parts. They may be built well, and look good, but if you're the type of person that likes to keep things awhile, you may need to wait a long time for parts, if they can still be found. Nothing lasts forever without some maintenance, so parts availability is a consideration. Sometimes, whomever designed the thing must never have tried to install it. For example, they have some body sprays that must be installed within 1/16" tolerance...ever tried to get the rough-in that exact when you have thinset and tile on top of it? Just unreasonable, but they look good!