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Thread: Fleck brine draw?

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    DIY Member moreira85's Avatar
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    Default Fleck brine draw?

    Just installed fleck 5600sxt. I have brine draw set to 60 mins and brine fill to 12 mins. During the brine draw the water is sucked out of the brine tank until it's gone but I notice after all the brine water is sucked out I still hear the brine line trying to suck air. Should this be happening? I assumed after the 20mins of sucking brine water it would shut off for the additional 40 min?

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    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    That should be happening. In your book you will see that the cycle is brine draw + slow rinse. Once the check valve (typically under the salt at the bottom) starts sucking air, the valve blocks the path. However water continues to flow, and that is called the slow rinse.

    The amount of brine is determined by the brine fill time along with its companion orifice (whatever its called) that determines the refill rate (often 0.5 GPM).

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    DIY Member moreira85's Avatar
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    So you are saying after the brine line finishes drawing all the brine water from the brine tank the line should still make the sucking for the remainder of the 60 min?

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    DIY Member moreira85's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply. I found this below online. Sounds like it's what you stated. If I understand you correctly after the brine water is sucked out and it starts sucking air a valve will close so it doesn't get into the piping however the brine line will still have a suction for the remainder of the 60 min?

    "The brine draw - slow rinse process takes 60 minutes. After all of the brine solution is drawn from the tank, the check valve in your brine tank shuts off so that air cannot be pulled into your piping. During the remainder of the 60 minutes, the resin column is rinsed, but a suction is still placed on the brine line. This suction does nothing, as the check valve is cutting off the draw process, however, if there is a small leak in the air fitting it may be possible that air is being drawn into you piping during the slow rinse portion of the brine draw process."

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    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reach4 View Post
    That should be happening. In your book you will see that the cycle is brine draw + slow rinse. Once the check valve (typically under the salt at the bottom) starts sucking air, the valve blocks the path. However water continues to flow, and that is called the slow rinse.

    The amount of brine is determined by the brine fill time along with its companion orifice (whatever its called) that determines the refill rate (often 0.5 GPM).
    You don't want any air sucked into the unit. That is the purpose of the air check. It stop the unit from drawing air once the water is gone.

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    DIY Member moreira85's Avatar
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    I understand I don't want air sucked in. How do I know it's not sucking air in and that the valve is working?

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    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reach4 View Post
    That should be happening. In your book you will see that the cycle is brine draw + slow rinse. Once the check valve (typically under the salt at the bottom) starts sucking air, the valve blocks the path. However water continues to flow, and that is called the slow rinse.

    The amount of brine is determined by the brine fill time along with its companion orifice (whatever its called) that determines the refill rate (often 0.5 GPM).
    The slow rinse flow causes the suction to suck brine water out of the tank. Without the slow rise flow there is no brine draw. Any air suction stops the brine draw...

    Usually except for Autotrol, there is a ball in the air check on the bottom of the brine pickup tube in the salt tank that floats on the brine water and as the water level gets close enough, the ball is sucked into a socket that stops any more water from being sucked out and prevents any air to be sucked into the brine pick up tube. That allows about 2.5" or brine water to remain in the brine tank. There should be no sound of air being sucked and if there is then there is a loose compression fitting that needs to be tightened a bit more. You do not tighten them until you can't turn them anymore; hand tight plus a 1/2 turn and stop.

    Twelve minutes at .5 gpm (or 1.5 lbs) per minute says 6 gallons of refill at 3 lbs/gallon = 18 lbs.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
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    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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    DIY Member moreira85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    The slow rinse flow causes the suction to suck brine water out of the tank. Without the slow rise flow there is no brine draw. Any air suction stops the brine draw...

    Usually except for Autotrol, there is a ball in the air check on the bottom of the brine pickup tube in the salt tank that floats on the brine water and as the water level gets close enough, the ball is sucked into a socket that stops any more water from being sucked out and prevents any air to be sucked into the brine pick up tube. That allows about 2.5" or brine water to remain in the brine tank. There should be no sound of air being sucked and if there is then there is a loose compression fitting that needs to be tightened a bit more. You do not tighten them until you can't turn them anymore; hand tight plus a 1/2 turn and stop.

    Twelve minutes at .5 gpm (or 1.5 lbs) per minute says 6 gallons of refill at 3 lbs/gallon = 18 lbs.
    Okay now we are getting somewhere. First off I appreciate your time in answering this. i just want to make sure it's working correctly. I checked the air check valve and the ball in it works as it should. Let me rephrase my original question. During the 60 min brine draw the brine water is being sucked out of the the brine well and you can hear the fleck control valve drawing suction. Once the water is all taken out of the brine tank the air check valve has a ball in it and the ball drops to the bottom of the air check and covers the hole so that air can't be sucked in. When this ball drops it does not turn off the fleck control unit from being under suction right? It just blocks the air so that the brine line can't suck?

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    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    That is correct, the time the slow rinse/brine draw cycle position runs for is controlled by the number of minutes the control valve timer is set to; in your case 60 minutes. You want the brine out of the salt tank and into the resin bed in the first 10-20 minutes of that cycle position (time). Then the slow rinse flushes the resin with the brine and gets it out of the resin tank to drain. When done, then the Rinse cycle finishes that and compacts the resin bed for down flow service.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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    DIY Member moreira85's Avatar
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    Thank you. Everything seems to be working then. Can I get some assistance on the salt setting? I have the fleck 40,000 grain w 1.25 cub resin tank. 4 people in the house 2 adults n two young children. I'd avg about 240 gal of water per day. Hardness 1-2 gpg and iron about 3ppm. I have the hardness setting at 17 and capacity at 25 or 25000 with 10% reserve. I think I have the salt brine fill set to high at 12 mins or 18 pounds.

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    What is the BLFC button size? On the front of the system will be a small sticker where the brine line enters the valve. it will be green, red, blue, or black. Black is most common. This will allow us to help you set the salt setting correctly.

    And... you are using a softener for iron removal, not really for softening? Why? An iron removal system would make a lot more sense.

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    DIY Member moreira85's Avatar
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    I'll check the size when I get home. In the research I did I thought softeners would work for iron under 5ppm. a few neighbors, also on well, had softeners put in and they said it helped with the staining in toilets, and of course they paid big money for theirs to be installed.

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    DIY Member moreira85's Avatar
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    It's .5 gpm. I was thinking of changing the capacity to 30 and brine fill to 8 mins?

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    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Softeners work for iron. M1 tanks work for commuting. neither one is very efficient. Modern iron removal methods have been used for over the past couple of decades. Softeners for pure iron removal is not the most efficient method.

  15. #15
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moreira85 View Post
    It's .5 gpm. I was thinking of changing the capacity to 30 and brine fill to 8 mins?
    IMO a 1.25 cuft is a bastard type size and you should have bought a 1.5 cuft but... You need to know how hard the water is, don't guess like 1 or 2 gpg. Same goes for your iron. Click the lnk in my signature to learn how to set your K of capacity and salt dose.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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