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Thread: Raimondi Tile Leveling System

  1. #16
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Grout Discolouration with Lashing Clips: Raimondi, Lash, Tuscan etc...

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    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:31 PM.


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  2. #17
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The report discusses leaving spacers in place as a possible source of discoloration. The leveling systems clips are designed to break off at the base, essentially the bottom of the tile. Good prep prior to grouting should remove any bits, if there were any, and make this a non-issue. The only situation where it is more likely to happen would be with maybe a glass tile, or a VERY thin one, and those aren't good candidates for those leveling systems for the most part, partly because they tend to be small, and partly because they may be transparent or translucent, so ANYTHING under them would show, especially poor technique with the mortar, and almost certainly what was left of any leveling clip.

    Some grout color unevenness goes away after things fully cure, too, but could be an issue for the first day or two. Similar to some porous stones becoming discolored by the moisture from the thinset...depending on the situation, it can take a couple of weeks for it to return to 'normal'.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  3. #18
    DIY Senior Member DougB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    The report discusses leaving spacers in place as a possible source of discoloration. The leveling systems clips are designed to break off .... blah blah blah ....
    I doubt that you have ever used these, just more noise. Read this:

    There are two groups of people in the world. In one group are those who think they know things. In the other are the people who think those in the first group are idiots.

    The Original Skeptic

    But it was the great Pyrrho from Elis who developed the philosophy we know today as “skepticism.” Loosely, a skeptic is someone who suspects that other people don’t know nearly as much as they think they do. And loosely speaking, the skeptics are mostly right.
    If a hammer won't fix it, it's an electrical problem.

  4. #19
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    FWIW, when that report was written, few, if any, of these self-leveling systems were around. They were talking about leaving a tile spacer in there, and saying it could cause variations on grout color...well, duh, the grout would be almost non-existent if it was not removed.

    I've read lots of user comments on the things. One guy said his wall tile came off the next day, but then he admitted when they did, he didn't use the minimum trowel notch, didn't back butter the large tiles, and only had 10-20% coverage...well, again, duh...RTFM! Most of the other people complaining weren't using the proper trowel, either, or backbuttering the tile, or picking one up occasionally to verify they had good coverage. As with anything, there's a right way, and a wrong way to use it...it's unreasonable to expect great results when it is used incorrectly.

    For a DIY'er, with large tile, even if you do need to spend a bit more time cleaning up the grout lines after setting, you'll end up with a better result, faster. A pro, maybe, depends. Few DIY'ers set lots of tile, and these aids, used properly, do help. Enough so, that some pros use them all of the time on big tile, too. On big jobs, it's not uncommon to have a lower paid helper, so leaving the cleanup to him, if the pro can set faster, still ends up saving money because of the speed he can set the tile.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member chefwong's Avatar
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    JW : But you use the same system in this pic
    http://www.houzz.com/photos/1110186/...room-vancouver

    I don't have a horse in this race, but I do own and have used the TLS system once on a remodel. Doe's it make me a better setter. No.
    Half of tile setting is not only the application itself, but layout and grout color is KEY. It does however maintain a level tile plane as long as the ~setter~ at the end of the day is ensuring proper tile coverage....it's only as good as the *tool* who is using/setting in . Then again, isn't that the universal rule in life. You get what you put into it...

  6. #21
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    A person can get (whatever) tile he choses all in a plane, easier with one of these systems. The end result, agreed, is more than just getting the tile in place, but it is a critical item on any install. Can it be done without one of these systems? Certainly, and if you are very skilled, you may be able to do it faster, but the average DIY'er does not have the skills to achieve this without a lot of time and care. And some, no matter how hard they try, without something like this, would end up with the tile less than perfect. You can still mess up the spacing with one of these systems, but at least the lippage will be minimal.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #22
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:32 PM.


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  8. #23
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default Lash vs Raimondi Clips

    Lash Clip:



    Photo: Imagine Source

    Raimondi Clip:



    Photo: Image Source

    You can see that the clip has a flat bottom - not curled. Much better design. See in the picture above there is no thin-set between the top of the clip and the bottom of the tile. Thin-set does not stick to plastic that well so every clip equates to a little lack of bond.

    I'm pretty sure the TCNA will approve these clips - there are just to many people making them. I'm pretty sure we will see a spike in "Indent Fractures" as well. Time will tell....


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  9. #24
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default The Many Options in Lashing Tile Clips



    Photo Source



    Photo Source



    Photo Source



    Photo Source

    This design above where the removal of the clip is a screw or unscrewing motion is most likely the best design for these clips.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  10. #25
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Default ProLeveling System - Lippage Free Tile Installations (similar to Raimondi)

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    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:32 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  11. #26
    DIY Senior Member chefwong's Avatar
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    I'll admit, I have hd concerns on what ill effects the leftover clip has relative to the grout (both in proper coverage). Color is not a issue for for as the only grouts I use is Epoxy.

    Maybe it's time for another mad scientist test ?
    Install clips. Break clips off per manuf. recommend instructions.
    Break clip off and do a ~cutaway~ shot.

    The trick is how to cut it to get the *cutaway shot*

  12. #27
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
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    Chef I think a better test is to see how the tile holds up to an impact blow. Like dropping a hammer from 3' on the tile's edge....

    I still have another 30 shear tests to run.

    I watch the video above and like the levelling clip he is using.

    I wonder if the system would be stronger if you say - spot dabbed some thin-set on the clips base... Top and bottom so there is a thin-set bite from both ends? Hmmm.

    What is great about the ProLeveling system is no Stupid Toy Gun!


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    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member chefwong's Avatar
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    JW.

    Back onto the Stupid Toy Gun Comments. The TLS straps where built on the same ~tensioning~ of wire ties for removal. I can't comment about any other system other than the TLS. The design of how thick the strap is, the *breakaway* slits in them, etc. These toy guns can range from $25 to $250 + on these strap guns. Wire guys (mainly low voltage* guys use who use such strapping systems day in and day out, the better guns will cut the wire ties with no *sharp edge*, correctly tensioned to hold the wire bundle yet not be too tight on what may be 22AWG wires. Just FWIW on those toy guns....

  14. #29
    DIY Senior Member chefwong's Avatar
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    Hmmmm....I've really yet to read into all the comments on this thread.

    I'll attest to porcelain and a proper substrate. Some buffoon...to be un-named, HAS dropped a 14 V drill battery on porcelain from about 6 1/2 feet high at least 3-5 times to date, and nary a crack or sign of damage to the porcelain tile...

  15. #30
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Proper thinset depth and coverage is critical to any tile install, and maybe more so when you use a clip of some sort. A curve on the bottom of the clip may work best since there would be thinset around most of it, minimizing plastic to tile or substrate contact under the tile. But, of those I've looked into, they require moderately deep thinset coverage, which is not unusual for a bigger tile (and the ones these things work best for and are recommended for).
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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