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Thread: Water savings

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member 6t7gto's Avatar
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    Default Water savings

    I have one 3.5 toilet that may get used 6 times a day.
    If I change it out to a 1.6 toilet, how much savings can I realize? In dollars.
    Here is a sample of a water bill similar to water usage in my home. 2 people.
    I'm wondering if it is cost wise to change the toilet.
    thanks,
    david
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  2. #2
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    1 MCF = 7,480 Gallons of Water. For your extra gallons, you pay $0.00394 per gallon. With your numbers, you would save $16.40 per year.

  3. #3
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reach4 View Post
    1 MCF = 7,480 Gallons of Water. For your extra gallons, you pay $0.00394 per gallon. With your numbers, you would save $16.40 per year.

    I think the formula is more complex than that, Just by looking at the way that bill charges.

    There may be some sewage savings.

    If I had a $250 water bill I would move to a better location.


    Cleveland is high class now I guess.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  4. #4
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    And to think people piss n moan when they get a bill for $3000.00 to replace a pump, pipe and wire along with the labor that has provided them with water for 15 years.

  5. #5
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigpump View Post
    And to think people piss n moan when they get a bill for $3000.00 to replace a pump, pipe and wire along with the labor that has provided them with water for 15 years.

    Counting the electrical power, that would be less than $25 a month.


    I figure the GOV will have us metering our private water wells soon.


    Not sure how they will Tax the air that we breath. But technology is getting better.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
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    That sample bill is for 3 months (not 1). The meter read dates were 3/12 and 6/06. So, it is like $80/month. The example user used ~15,000 gallons [2 MCF] (or about 5000 gallons per month).

    Savings (gallons) would be 6*(3.5-1.6)*365=4161 gallons/year

    If all charges are proportional to use (ignore fixed charges), you would save about 82% of one months cost (4161/5000)*80 = $66.58

    It looks like about $7/month out of the $80 is fixed, so the real savings would be closer to: (4161/5000)*73 = $60.75/year

    These are all rough numbers, but should be pretty close. We would need a better breakdown of sewer charges, etc. to get closer.

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    I think the formula is more complex than that, Just by looking at the way that bill charges.

    There may be some sewage savings.

    If I had a $250 water bill I would move to a better location.


    Cleveland is high class now I guess.
    Oooh..., yes, I missed the sewer charge and "local charges". Big omission.

    If I presume the "local charges" and sewer charges stay proportional to water, that toilet now saves $57.09 per year -- 348% times as much as I had originally calculated. If those other charges were not proportional to the water portion, that changes things of course.

  8. #8
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nukeman View Post
    That sample bill is for 3 months (not 1). The meter read dates were 3/12 and 6/06. So, it is like $80/month. The example user used ~15,000 gallons [2 MCF] (or about 5000 gallons per month).

    Savings (gallons) would be 6*(3.5-1.6)*365=4161 gallons/year

    If all charges are proportional to use (ignore fixed charges), you would save about 82% of one months cost (4161/5000)*80 = $66.58

    It looks like about $7/month out of the $80 is fixed, so the real savings would be closer to: (4161/5000)*73 = $60.75/year

    These are all rough numbers, but should be pretty close. We would need a better breakdown of sewer charges, etc. to get closer.

    Good Find nukeman.

    That sounds better.

    I guess they save by reading the meter every 3 months.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Like a lot of things, your return on investment may never catch up with your initial investment, at least in the short term., especially if you have some lawn irrigation water in the mix.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  10. #10
    DIY Senior Member Hammerlane's Avatar
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    I am familiar with Cleveland Water and yes they bill quarterly. They bill for water usage to figure what is owed to them and they also bill for the NEORSD (Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District) and bill for them. Other local charges on the bill depending on the community or suburb served may be for trash collection or something else that water consumption does not affect

    SO water consumption affects:

    1. the Cleveland Division of Water bill
    2. the NEORSD sewer charge

    $55.45 is what the NEORSD charges per MCF of water consumption to treat sewage.
    $29.48 is what the Division of Water charges for a thousand cubic feet of water after the first 0.6 MCF
    7480 is the number of gallons in a MCF

    Disregarding any fixed charges for the water, a gallon of water cost $29.48 / 7480 = $0.0039 (which is 0.39 cents)
    Disregarding the base charge for sewer, the cost to treat a gallon water is $55.45 / 7480 = $0.0074 (which is 0.74 cents)

    So the total cost for a gallon of water is $0.0039 + $0.0074 = $0.0113 (which is 1.3 cents)


    If you save 4161 gallons a year by saving 11.4 gallons a day by saving 1.9 gallons per every 6 flushes,

    Then you save (4161 gallons) * ($0.0113 per gallon) = $47 a year.
    Last edited by Hammerlane; 10-28-2013 at 08:15 AM.

  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member 6t7gto's Avatar
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    Sewer rate is $58.15 per mcf per quarter. Fixed fee of $21.00 per quarter for the meter.
    Based on the example... 2mcf times $58.15 = $116.30 for sewer plus $21.00 = 137.30.
    Our suburb does not get charged the $51.31 local charges shown on the bill. So back that out.
    Where am I at now, with savings, for the expense of a new toilet?

    I type too slow. Seems hammerlane has it figured out. Thanks.

    So it seems that if I upgrade to a Toto Drake for 300 or so dollars if will take me about 6 years to break even?
    Last edited by 6t7gto; 10-28-2013 at 08:26 AM.

  12. #12
    DIY Senior Member Hammerlane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6t7gto View Post
    Sewer rate is $58.15 per mcf per quarter.
    Yeah if you live in a suburb you get charged a little more for sewage than Cleveland residents.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6t7gto View Post
    I type too slow. Seems hammerlane has it figured out. Thanks.
    Believe it or not I kind of already had this figured. My grandmother(Bless her heart) would not flush the toilet after each sitting for #1. So I figured it out for her to see how much see is actually saving from not flushing. It turned out at that time to be just about one cent.

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    DIY Senior Member dj2's Avatar
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    In LA, where water is a scarce commodity, I pay about 0.75 cent per gallon (including sewer charge).
    In CLE, where water is abundant, people pay 1.3 cent per gallon? - makes no sense at all.

    But as far as your savings switching to TOTO: I think it's worth it. In LA changing to 1.6 tanks is the law.

    The real winner is the water supplier. When every customer switches to 1.6 toilets, they end up delivering less water, except they don't pass the saving (of maintaining their pipes, upgrading or changing the, and other costs) to their customers.

    In other words, they over charge (or rip off) their best customers. Now you know how they can afford to offer sky high salaries to their employees.

  14. #14
    DIY Senior Member dj2's Avatar
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    In LA we say: If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down!

  15. #15
    DIY Senior Member Hammerlane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dj2 View Post
    In LA, where water is a scarce commodity, I pay about 0.75 cent per gallon (including sewer charge).
    In CLE, where water is abundant, people pay 1.3 cent per gallon? - makes no sense at all.
    Back in 2011, the Water Dept raised rated drastically. They cited declining revenue. Which was a result of declining usage. So they had us conserving water but then backdoored us by raising rates.


    Quote Originally Posted by dj2 View Post
    In LA we say: If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down!
    Must of been the motto my grandmother lived by.

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