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Thread: Rheem 42V75F and Bradford White M-I-75S6BN NG Water Heaters

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member Jdavis37's Avatar
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    Thx Terry and Happy Thanksgiving. I have a lot of height in my garage so that won't be an issue for me BUT is a very good point for anyone in future reading through the threads. The devil of course is always in the details! Now I need to verify the price I found on that beast as it seems to be too low which means of course In the end I'll buy it locally anyway just to avoid any bad surprises and so on. The BW costs a little more and they aren't quite as readily available. Just looking forward to being able to fill the tub without having to do start and stop fills!

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    The Rheem 75 would be a good choice. You have the needed 4" vent for it too.
    They tend to be a little taller, so I would check that spec too.

  2. #17
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    One thing that makes a WH 'look' bigger, is to run it higher in temperature. To keep things safe, you should install a tempering valve at the WH to drop the outlet temperature to a safe level (typically 120-degrees). This ends up mixing some cold into the outlet to bring the water down to a safe level.
    Jim DeBruycker
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  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member Jdavis37's Avatar
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    At the risk of showing my stupidity, how is that any different from mixing in cold water at the faucet? ( other than of course at faucet one could turn cold water off first). It just seems like the heat losses throughout the lines would come into play more if the temp is reduced to 120 degrees versus the full temp at the start. Mine is currently running around 140 degrees give or take. Appreciate the input. Contractors usually love me after I read things for a while.. just enough knowledge to irritate probably but then I have learned many who do this stuff for a professional living don't know as much as they should!


    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    One thing that makes a WH 'look' bigger, is to run it higher in temperature. To keep things safe, you should install a tempering valve at the WH to drop the outlet temperature to a safe level (typically 120-degrees). This ends up mixing some cold into the outlet to bring the water down to a safe level.

  4. #19
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Default Rheem Pro 75

    Quote Originally Posted by Jdavis37 View Post
    At the risk of showing my stupidity, how is that any different from mixing in cold water at the faucet? ( other than of course at faucet one could turn cold water off first). It just seems like the heat losses throughout the lines would come into play more if the temp is reduced to 120 degrees versus the full temp at the start. Mine is currently running around 140 degrees give or take. Appreciate the input. Contractors usually love me after I read things for a while.. just enough knowledge to irritate probably but then I have learned many who do this stuff for a professional living don't know as much as they should!

    The rheem pro 75 is a great choice cause you are getting an
    8 year tank warranty with them ......they are rather large ,
    I think the specs put. them at 26 inches round...

    If you are installing a normal wall mount type Delta 1700 faucet
    you will already have a pressure balanced faucet which keeps
    you from getting scalded.....

    and unless you are a total moron
    that would jump into a tub full of hot water without testing
    the temps with your hands or feet, I seriousley doubt that you would need
    a mixing valve at the water heater....that is overkill

    I do suggest that you hook the 2 heaters up in series....
    if you do it that way you can always turn down the #1 water incomming heater
    to a much lower temp if you so chose to and let the #2 outgoing heater stay at
    the hotter temps.......that would be the most efficient way to maximize savings

    I would also install a low cost water heater blanket on both of them

    I told you about these two things just to twist your tail.
    and confuse you more..


  5. #20
    DIY Junior Member Jdavis37's Avatar
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    Always good to get more ideas on top of semi confusion lol

    By the way there will only be a single water heater.. the existing 50 will be removed. Tonight the older 50 actually performed pretty well giving me confidence that a new 75 will easily do the trick. My biggest concern is getting anew water heater and still having inconsistent performance. I guess that is one area tankless holds an advantage. Often I will run some hot weater to wash dishes, etc about half hour before bath or shower.. seems to ensure fresher hot water in the tank!

    I am seeing several places on line with really good prices on this water heater so perhaps a new model is forthcoming, etc. I'll call Fergusons next week to see what type of contractor price i can get. If it is reasonably close I'll buy locally to avoid the yikes if it arrives defective. The width is a bit of a concern as it will be right on edge of my existing brick/concrete stand in garage. Height at least is of no concern. The jacket will be something I'll look into though. Thx for the suggestion.

    And yes shower valves are anti scald and seem to be handling even toilet flushes quite well Tub water I like hot... can always cool down fairly easily if needed!


    Quote Originally Posted by master plumber mark View Post
    The rheem pro 75 is a great choice cause you are getting an
    8 year tank warranty with them ......they are rather large ,
    I think the specs put. them at 26 inches round...

    If you are installing a normal wall mount type Delta 1700 faucet
    you will already have a pressure balanced faucet which keeps
    you from getting scalded.....

    and unless you are a total moron
    that would jump into a tub full of hot water without testing
    the temps with your hands or feet, I seriousley doubt that you would need
    a mixing valve at the water heater....that is overkill

    I do suggest that you hook the 2 heaters up in series....
    if you do it that way you can always turn down the #1 water incomming heater
    to a much lower temp if you so chose to and let the #2 outgoing heater stay at
    the hotter temps.......that would be the most efficient way to maximize savings

    I would also install a low cost water heater blanket on both of them

    I told you about these two things just to twist your tail.
    and confuse you more..


  6. #21
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    FWIW, where I live, a tempering valve is not optional...it will not pass an inspection unless there's one installed. Now, that doesn't mean it has to actually be adjusted to cool things down, and the better ones are essentially pass-through when at or below the set point, but they do allow you to set the tank hotter and still be safe. Having one installed also lets you make the tank look bigger if you have a house full of visitors for the weekend. This has nothing to do with anti-scald valves at the shower...those just prevent a hot surge caused by a momentary drop in the cold water pressure. It's not uncommon for someone to flip the valve to max hot, and wash their hands, and it could easily get WAY too hot before you finish...this is more the reason for limiting the max water out of the tap, not a bathing issue.

    Today's shower valves have two functions (they are not always set correctly, though)...the anti-scald function you cannot turn off, and a mechanical temp limiter you set up based on your current water temps. Unfortunately, that can change a bunch between winter/summer - the hot supply will likely be the same, but the mix with the incoming cold can make it way off in one season or the other, or you live with it technically, out of code.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 11-29-2013 at 05:44 PM.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #22
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    no offence meant here jadnashua.....
    but they seem extremely anal up in New England if it is
    mandatory to install a tempering valve on a common resideintial
    water heater.... anti siphon valve on heaters and tempering valves seem
    like extreme over-kill to me

    I would assume that the tempering valve used to meet code is probably
    some in-expensive watts unit that is actually installed more for looks
    than long term functionality.....

  8. #23
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master plumber mark View Post
    no offence meant here jadnashua.....
    but they seem extremely anal up in New England if it is
    mandatory to install a tempering valve on a common resideintial
    water heater.... anti siphon valve on heaters and tempering valves seem
    like extreme over-kill to me

    I would assume that the tempering valve used to meet code is probably
    some in-expensive watts unit that is actually installed more for looks
    than long term functionality.....
    lol

    Most people in New England are like those in California, They need the Gov to hold their hand and take their Tax money.

    At least they live in safe places, If you do not count bullets.


    I would hope that rule is for new installs and not replacements.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  9. #24
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    lol

    Most people in New England are like those in California, They need the Gov to hold their hand and take their Tax money.

    At least they live in safe places, If you do not count bullets.


    I would hope that rule is for new installs and not replacements.
    Many people never get a permit to replace their water heater, but it is a requirement most places to ensure it is done right. So, any install that actually gets a permit must have one to pass the requisite inspection afterwards.

    NH isn't too bad, but MA, you can't legally even do plumbing in your own home unless you have a license AND, fixtures that you use MUST be on the state approved database to pass as well. Maine and VT aren't anywhere near as strict as MA.

    I don't look at the national codes, so do not know if that is in there, which NH tends to follow, but it could be a local amendment (they don't tend to add that many in my city/state).
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #25
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    In reality I don't really think it maters if a install is safe or not.

    If you pay the permit FEE it will work, And the inspector will be to busy too inspect it properly.


    The grandfather clause may get you by in Texas for replacements, But who has a grandfather now a days ?
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  11. #26
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    Many people never get a permit to replace their water heater, but it is a requirement most places to ensure it is done right. So, any install that actually gets a permit must have one to pass the requisite inspection afterwards.

    NH isn't too bad, but MA, you can't legally even do plumbing in your own home unless you have a license AND, fixtures that you use MUST be on the state approved database to pass as well. Maine and VT aren't anywhere near as strict as MA.

    I don't look at the national codes, so do not know if that is in there, which NH tends to follow, but it could be a local amendment (they don't tend to add that many in my city/state).

    basically the law you are speaking about is a farce and a joke because anyone
    can install their own heater without getting a permit...

    For safetys sake, the folks in mas. need the government to shut down all hardware
    stores where someone could buy a water heater and install it themselves..
    or at the very least the govenrment should force folks in the hardware stores
    to pay up front a "permit fee" if they are wanting to plumbing in their own home...





  12. #27
    DIY Senior Member kcodyjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master plumber mark View Post
    they seem extremely anal up in New England
    Yes. Oh, you were talking about the codes? Yeah, that too.

    I can't claim to know for sure, but I believe the requirement only applies if the tank is kept above 120... which, even if set at 120, won't hold the water at or below 120. So, it depends how uptight the local inspector wants to be. I'd expect any ASSE 1017 compliant valve would do, including the cheap Watts.

    By the way, Watts is headquartered in Andover, MA. Coincidence? Doubt it.

  13. #28
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    I can do lots of plumbing things, but in MA, that doesn't mean I can do them legally (nor can I do them in my condo in NH, but could if it was a single family dwelling). Lots of things get done without a permit, but that does not mean it is legal. Should you have a problem, it can come back to bite you in the end if done without one. Many places, you can buy two handle shower valves, but it hasn't been legal to install a simple one without anti-scald tech for ages.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  14. #29
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    In reality MA is no different than anywhere else...its all a joke .

    just like everywhere else in the country....
    they have loopholes in the law that grants anyone the right
    to go to any hardware store and buy plumbing supplies....


    The plumber is the only one who gets penalized because
    if the plumber goes by the exact letter of the law
    and comes out and estimates a job , it will be substantially higher
    than some home-owner could install a water heater for....

    plumbing permit, thermal expansion tank, anti-siphon valve, and anti scald valve
    all three are things that are never sold or mentioned in hardware stores
    to DIYers ..... they are not forced to buy them or take out a permit


    nothing new here ust more of the same rhetoric


  15. #30
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    I know a lot of them Rules are put in by HOA's, Insurance companies and banks.

    A permit is just a paper trail to insure everyone gets their money.


    To top it off, You get to pay more property Tax, Because your home has a documented improvement.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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