Terry, I ordered the Ultramax -- will it come with the CT 854 or do I need to order that too?
Yes, agreed. The new pots are about $60 each; no biggie. However, as a matter of principle, anyone remember the Firenza automobile that used to burst into flames? In law, there is something called manufacturer warranty, there may be pertinent statutarory warranty and in common law at least there is something called 'implied warranty' which means that a product is fit for duty, regardless of time, for the purpose for which it was intended and purchased. THAT is the warranty that applies here. The product was not only defective at the time of manufacture due to the spot welding of the underlying metal, but American Standard may have knowingly been selling the product with the full understanding and knowledge that it was defective when it went out the door or at least while it was sitting on dealer shelves. So, I thought I would bring that to their attention and run it up the pole, as it were.
Needless to say, their customer service folks did not see it that way nor did their "Office of the President" who I am sure undertook legal counsel before speaking to me.
The long and short of it is that I have a choice at this point. Either just drop in some new lavs, as you suggest (and a very good suggestion at that) or give them a possible rap across the knuckles to not do this again to unsuspecting consumers.
I was advised by two seperate plumbing supply shops that this was a common problem with circa 1990's American Standard sinks and a known problem at that but everyone kept quiet. Fact is that the ceramic started coming off years ago (the sinks are 20 years old) and in some cases came off with such noise that they sounded like the report of a .22 pistol.
Anyway, think I am going to just do as you suggest and drop in some TOTO sinks. May as well replace the plumbing at the same time.
God bless TOTO. That Ultramax II is nothing short of amazing. It may not pass golf balls (a publicity stunt of course) but it did pass an entire box of interfolded Kleenex. The super finish is nothing short of amazing. We actually have taken the Ajax cleanser out of the bathrooms and I am thinking of putting up wee signs that say "No abrasive cleansers" on the bottom of the seats. We put some dishwashing detergent ON the surface and it was a bugger to flush off. In fact it was tough to wash off with a plastic brush. It stuck like glue and took several unassisted flushes to rid completely; but boy was that one clean toilet!
In my almost 60 years I have used and flushed MANY a toilet all over this world of ours and on every continent. The TOTO Ultramax II is without a doubt the best of the best. I am wondering now how the Drake is for our powder room and master bathroom; or I may just go right to the Ultramax for those as well.
We think we will only be in the house for another few years before selling and moving to something small (one of a sixplex plus one of a sixplex stateside); those for sure will all have Ultramax II's in them and TOTO throughout.
Terry, thank you for providing an invaluable service with this site and I only wish that you were closer to Toronto/Buffalo/Orlando.
Terry, I ordered the Ultramax -- will it come with the CT 854 or do I need to order that too?
Last edited by Terry; 03-13-2010 at 06:32 PM.
That part number is close to the body of the toilet
Normally, the boxes I'm selling are MS854114S and come with the SS114 softclose seat.
I don't know from your part number if they are selling you the seat with the toilet or not.
I meant the intake valve and flapper/overflow tube -- does that come with the toilet?
Well, we've had the Ultramax top of the line in for several weeks now and WOWEE! are they incredible. Two more toilets in the house and they are both going to be replaced by either the Ultramax or the Drake (Ultramax is a known performer here now). We have not had anything even remotely resembling an issue with out Ultramax and the Sanigloss finish keeps it nice and clean although we do toss in some disinfectant dishwashing liquid and brush it every now and again when we are mopping the floor; and we use a few disinfectant wipes on the surfaces and toss them down the toilet as well. What a difference from the American Standard stuff we had! We are also going to be replacing the American Standard sinks with new Toto's as well....... frankly, they suck and so does their customer service. The sinks are defective due to rivetting popping the ceramics over the years. Called AS and they said jump in a lake. Guess I can understand that. You've got a bazillion defective sinks out there and you sure don't want to replace them all under implied warranty right? Cheap enough...... we'll toss in Toto's simply cuz we love their stuff. After checking out the salt and pepper test videos on utube where the pepper did not get flushed down the first try we are now staying clear of Koehler as well.... it may look bold but we'd prefer it flushed boldly, where no man has gone before, etc.
Toto... you've got us hooked.
Thanks for making the website available; it has been invaluable.
Well I certainly did some research on these toilets and the TOTO looked the way to go. I purchased an Ultramax with soft closing seat and installed it into our main bathroom.
We are pretty happy with it's "takeaway" power although it still ocassionally leaves small "floaters" when refilling. My 5 year old Crane never did that. I actually took the Crane and installed it in a basement bathroom to replace a terrible unit by Gerber. The Crane works very well down there as well.
My biggest gripe with the TOTO is the seat. It is sooo uncomfortable and unfortunately I didn't get a comfort height unit so I miss that added reach for my 6'2" frame. I don't mind getting a little further down though, it's just the seat is really contoured and I can't imagine it fitting everybody the same.
I'm on the skinny side of skinny and I may have to look for a different seat if that is possible.
All in all I'm not so sure a $600cdn toilet is the way to go however it's in now and of course a keeper. I would have liked to have tried a Cadet from American Standard, or even the Drake model which would have saved me some scratch. My Crane was $180.00!!!!
I am flabbergasted by your Ultramax experience considering the other reviews it has received and our own experience with it. It is utterly amazing here. Never do we find ANYTHING left over after a low volume flush. If you hold the handle down for a second you will get more water flowing for the flush I believe... might want to try that, but we have never had to do that. To test out mine, in a brave and bold moment, I took a whole box of Kleenex (a large box at that) pulled out the block of tissue, tossed it in the toilet and flushed it down. Not a problem. We occasionally have some stickage with an unusually large teenage 'dump' but a second or third flush leaves the toilet pristine. Always. And we put some mild dishwashing liquid into the toilet and use a plastic brush to clean it every week and use antiseptic wipes on the exterior and seat at the same time or when needed. It is by far the best 'crapper' that we have ever had so I am thinking that your issues may be more with venting or line constriction?
just purchased an Ultramax from you. It looks good, it works good and was a breeze to install. Thanks a lot.
I'll be getting another one this summer.
I just installed a Toto MS854114SG-01 Ultramax Elongated One Piece Toilet with Sanagloss. Installation seemed fine but I noticed something odd when I flushed. The toilet flushes quite well but I noticed that water is streaming out of the top of the g-max fill valve (underneath the cap.) Is this normal?
Thanks for your help!
It's part of the normal operation of the anti-siphon.
It prevents an illegal cross connection.
Last edited by Terry; 05-11-2010 at 08:18 AM.
Can the Ultramax be installed on tile with the standard 2 bolt or will I have to have additional holes drilled into the tile?
Installed my Ultramax ten years ago, thanks to advice from Terry's website. Overall it has been good, not great. I should mention we are a family of three, we do not abuse the fixtures, I am under 190 lbs, another family member is 120 lbs, third is about 75 lbs.
--"Does the job" as Terry says. That is the most important feature. Reasonably quiet. Attractive appearance with the low-profile one-piece styling.
--Just about all the moving parts have failed and required replacement:
--Soft-close seat: bumpers broke within a couple years. Rather than buy the expensive Toto replacement that was just as cheaply made, I bought a Kohler soft-close seat that fit pretty well and has had no problems.
--Fill valve failed after about two years. Purchased the correct Toto replacement part, expensive, it failed after about two more years. Worst of all--when they failed, they leaked water onto the floor, just enough not to notice until we saw water dripping into the basement. Replaced with generic hardware store valve, no problems since.
--Yesterday the trip lever failed. During a party with many guests. "Hey, the toilet won't flush." Inspection revealed that a concealed piece of the pot metal casting had worn completely through, so it would no longer engage the brass lift bar. Fortunately I was able to jury rig a fix with a wire tie, which will hold until a new trip lever arrives from the Internet plumbing supply. Had noticed the trip lever action had been sloppy in recent months.
--I also ordered a new flapper. The flapper on this toilet has long been too quick to close, requiring user to hold down lever for 5 seconds or so to ensure a complete flush. It's possible that behavior was an early symptom of the trip lever wear.
This is a product with good fundamental design and disappointing quality. The parts that failed were cheaply executed--inadequate materials. The main one-piece casting has held up well and still looks good.
I have been around long enough, lived with enough toilets, to say I've never seen so many problems like this. On the other hand, with many of those others, a plunger was a permanent accessory stored next to the toilet. I have needed to plunge this one maybe half-a-dozen times in ten years. And it just about always needs only one flush.
If I were going to spend $500 today on a new toilet, I would look at the current alternatives before buying another Toto, although would still consider Toto.
With that said, I am grateful to Terry for his site, I learned a lot here. Without Terry's site I probably would have bought a low-flow system with poor performance, which cannot be fixed no matter how good the ancillary hardware might be.
Last edited by kdmeyer; 07-05-2010 at 02:37 PM.
I was considering the Carolina, but the Ultramax seems like a better toilet. From my understanding, and forgive me for not reading all 7 pages of posts, the difference between the Ultimate and the Ultramax is the flushing system where the Ultramax contains 9 litres of water but uses 6 on the flush and the Ultimate fills with 6 litres and uses all 6 for the flush. This is what the guy at the store told me. He said that he didn't have any of the Ultramax in but could convert an Ultimate to an Utramax by switching out the guts in the tank. Is this correct or should I totall steer clear of this reseller?