(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 48

Thread: Schluter Shower install - wicking issue

  1. #31
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,381

    Default

    Head pressure, as in standing water, as in a container full of water, like a water tower. Your shower, unless you clog the drain and fill it up full of water again, will never see the water pressure that it does while doing the flood test on the seams. It's irrelevant how many gallons go down the drain...it's how much is standing there, allowing gravity to push it down. Unless it is plugged up, there is no head pressure. And, if you do end up with a clog, you usually fix it so it's not standing there for days on end, so if it passes your flood test, you're fine.

    Thinset does get harder and the cement grows more interlocking crystals as it cures. Industry rates the strength at 28-days, but in reality, it continues for a long time after that. The Hoover Dam is still generating heat from the concrete curing and it was finished in 1936.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  2. #32
    DIY Junior Member keithterry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    14

    Default

    after 24 hours, 1" of water held with no loss of water. I did see the wicking around the sides per prior photo. The rep indicates if no leaks, its good. I saw in your the johnrjfwhipple post above from 2009 you noted wicking...is that what lead to using ardex on the seams?

    I hadn't gotten to the hardware store to get a plug, so I used plumbers putty and the putty cup, it worked perfect to my surprise, there was no leaking.

    I did find two places my install was out of spec, where there was not a 2" overlap, only 1.5", so I am going back over that with Kerdi strips. also found one area that didn't adhere well, so cutting that and patching it, then will do another flood test, in a few days.

    I read one of Johnfrwhipples prior posts and saw some things I hadn't seen before, so am re-stating. namely: install Kerdi with the markings out. I wondered when I was installing if there was an inside and outside, but don't recall seeing that stated in the Kerdi install book. Is that still true or is that for an older version of the Kerdi? I hadn't asked Schluter that question as yet.

    the other thing is not to use old thinset. I was going to use some old Versabond fortified thinset to install the suntouch heating coils. as long as it adhere's to the plywood and is solid when cured I was thinking it was ok prior to reading the comment. am I missing something or just taking risk with $20 that isn't wise? overtop of this would go ditra then the tile. I'm going to mix some up and do a sheer test on it just to see how it performs. prob buy some new thinset anyway, but curious if it still works.

  3. #33
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,381

    Default

    It doesn't matter which side is out when installing Kerdi...the fleece is identical. If it happened to be at the end of the roll, and it had a tight curl to it, you might want to install it with the curl down, so the edge was less prone to pull out, but the thinset, if applied properly, is way more than enough to overcome that easily.

    None of the thinset manufacturers recommend using thinset older than a year or if it hasn't been stored properly, the bag is damaged, or if it's been opened (the open time is sort of dependent on conditions, but the shorter the time, the better - days, maybe a week, probably not longer). Cement starts to cure when it sees any moisture and humidity in the air is enough to start it. It might look fine, mix up to a nice consistency, but once the cement has cured, those particles do not contribute to the bond...they act like more sand or aggregate. At best, it works fine, at worst, it never hardens, more likely something in between with a weaker bond than designed.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #34

    Default

    The edge of the floor is rolled partially up the wall. There is no practical way to use a sheet membrane over compound contours. Hydroban is an excellent product. I fully realize these statements, too, will be exploited and misconstrued. Not much I can do about that. I won't return to this thread.

    Name:  floor95small.jpg
Views: 194
Size:  58.8 KBName:  showerfloorsmall.jpg
Views: 177
Size:  50.8 KB
    John Bridge, Ceramic Tile Setter :-)

    http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php

  5. #35
    DIY Junior Member keithterry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    14

    Default

    tested the 10 year old versabond (opened bag) I had. useless, did not hold anything.

    I have old grout as well sealed the same way, I have to guess that is equally no good.

    Any recommendations on grout/sealer so I just seal it one time?

    onto a 72 hour water test starting around Friday then selecting final tile design.

  6. #36
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,381

    Default

    Many tile (porcelain (except polished), glass, some stones) won't absorb any sealer, so it is often just for the grout. It does not prevent the grout from absorbing water, but does help it repel stains. Yes, it will bead up a little, but the grout will still get wet from repeated exposure. I seem to have lost my recommended list when I reprogrammed my phone, but I have used Stone Tech sealer on some absorbent granite that I liked the results. Most any sealer will say that you need to reapply...how long in between will depend on the conditions and the quality of the stuff, ranging from a year or less to 5 or more. A good sealer is not inexpensive, but the good thing is a little goes a long ways. My granite fabricator pays nearly $200/gallon for the stuff he uses. Smaller quantities are more/unit because of packaging. The biggest hassle with installing a sealer is if you let it dry on the tile surface...it can leave a really hard to remove haze...all that I've seen warn against letting that happen, and to buff off the excess before it dries. Usually, adding some more sealer, then buffing it off will dissolve what's there and remove the haze.

    Good luck, and let us know how things work out.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #37
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,959
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:20 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  8. #38
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,959
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:20 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  9. #39
    DIY Junior Member keithterry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I've had trouble posting to the site, so am finally getting back.

    I re-kerdie'd one area that wicked the most. I did a 72 hour water test and there were no leaks, the water vapor test looked good. Art from Schluter was very helpful and responsive over prior weeks. After several discussions and photos, it did not sound like a visit was needed. however, I can see why a pro would use Ardex though for added insurance. I cannot find it for DIY, contractor only.

    I'm starting 18x18 tiles now.

  10. #40
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,959
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:20 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  11. #41
    DIY Junior Member keithterry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    14

    Default

    for the outside corner, I use a Kerdi outside corner (where the curb meets the wall). I note that because I qustioned if that joint was covered well.

    my radiant floor ohms all checks out so that is good....whew!!! I goto the SunTouch model.

    I got porcelain 18x18 tiles from a local tile store (Hamilton Parker) and had them make some 3" bullnose. I really wanted to make my own to get the best continuous look, but it looked like more than I wanted to take on. that's a benefit of having a pro with the right tools, I suspect they would get a better finished product....vs what I can do with my limited HD wet saw.

    next question I'm goint to ask Schluter is if I can/should install the toilet flange over the ditra? I hadn't seen that mentioned anywhere yet. their answer is: should attach that directly to subfloor, so I'll be cutting out some ditra around that.

    I am planning to use the schluter uncoupling membrane mortar and Tec uncoupling membrane mortar to install tiles. I've heard different things about materials to use. Schluter indicated this was fine with these tiles. lmk if you think I'm making an error with materials...

    Schluter noted when mixing it should be mixed with correct amount of water, so I will weigh it out. anyway to validate by consistency of material if it is correct? they indicated (phone support) that it shouldn't roll out of the bucket. any wisdom on mixing the mortar, please let me know.

    I'm dry fitting tiles now...HD Workhorse saw (cheapo) with a diamond blade is working, slowly, to my surprise.

  12. #42
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,381

    Default

    The proper place for the toilet flange is on top of the finished floor, although lots of them are installed with it directly on the subfloor. You may need a jumbo wax ring or to stack two wax rings with it low...depends on the toilet and the thickness of the tile. NOt necessary if you put it where it's designed, one wax ring will be fine. It needs to be anchored securely, and should you decide to not put it on top, you'd attach it to the subflooring directly. It's often easier to use the tile saw to notch where the screws would go when mounting it on top of the finished floor, rather than trying to drill holes through the tile, but with the right diamond core bit (Lowes sells Hitachi brand, or lots of places online). Make sure that the hole is big enough so that the screw has some slop through the tile or the threads might crack the tile...obviously, the pilot hole through the subfloor needs to be smaller, but you don't want it too small through the tile. If the tile is set properly, and your hole isn't smaller than the screw, it has little chance of cracking a tile when anchoring the flange.

    As to the proper mortar, to bond the Ditra to the subfloor, it needs to be a modified; to set the tile, it needs to be a dryset (unmodified). most manufacturers have a dryset mortar, and also sell a liquid modifier. If you go that route, you can just buy one mortar, and mix it with the modifier (per the instructions) for modified, and mix it with just water for the unmodified. This may help minimize waste rather than ending up with partial bags of two different thinsets. Or, no problem going with what you'd planned, either.

    When setting the Ditra, pull back a section and verify that there's full coverage on both the floor and the fleece of the membrane. If not, there's either not enough thinset (shouldn't be a problem if you use the right sized trowel), or it is mixed too thick, or you waited too long to set the Ditra and it skinned over.

    The difference in spreadability and consistency of thinset can change a lot depending on how it is mixed. A good paddle, mixed at the proper speed, the specified time really does make a difference. You might want to use a kitchen timer as judging time otherwise is not as reliable. Overworking it isn't helpful, either. Over speed, and it gets excess entrapped air, which isn't helpful.

    Same idea when setting the tile...good idea to burn in a coat of thinset on the back of the tile before setting it. And, pull one off to verify full coverage, or you may not be getting it set well. Industry standards call for (ideally 100% coverage) all edges covered and at least 80% of the rest when on the floor. Try for the ideal.

    Depending on the thinset and the tile, I've found that when burning in thinset to the back of some tile, it takes a couple of passes...when you then use the flat edge to scrape off everything, it should leave a thin coat that would have to be washed off - if it balls up, or doesn't cover, add more and press harder. Once it is fully burned into the back of the tile, and you've got a proper notch on the floor, set the tile by placing it down, a little bit away from where you want it, and then pushing it across the notches into position - this helps ensure full coverage as it flattens the notches, and works better than trying to press it down - full coverage of the thinset mating up with the thin burned layer on the back of the tile and its bond is tenacious. Check for level with the adjacent tile and adjust as necessary. Don't be afraid to pull it back up if you need to adjust the thinset or check for coverage. Slide the trowel or something under part way and pry/twist a little until the suction is broken, then it will come up. Once you get the hang of it, it can go fairly quickly.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #43
    DIY Junior Member keithterry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback Jim. Good tip on notching the tile. When I called Schluter they recommended fastening to the subfloor and already cut the tile prior to reading your note. I'll just shim it up as much as I can and use two wax rings.

    The mortar I have is unmodified Tec coupling membrane and Ditra which is what Schluter calls for over the kerdi/ditra.

    Grout question. With Durrock walls with Kerdi and Kerdi base, where the wall joint meets the wall in the shower base can I grout that or do I have to use a matching caulk?

    I'm close to setting some tiles on the floor.

    Name:  2013-11-20 23.00.37.jpg
Views: 110
Size:  36.2 KB

    For edges and baseboards, instead of bullnose is there another way to do this? I don't have the wheel to cut bullnose and if I got the wheel not sure it would work on my Workhorse 7" saw. they make 6" blades, but it sounded like this was hard to do.

    This project is a ton of work. been going now since June...part time. prob last til January.

    Web site thought. the big Reply to Thread button is dangerous. I've accidentally clicked that after typing up a message instead of the "Post Quick Reply" and lost the message. May be good to put a warning on it if there is text typed in the box so msgs aren't lost.

  14. #44
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,959
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Post(s) deleted by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-15-2014 at 03:20 PM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  15. #45
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,381

    Default

    You must use a modified thinset to anchor the Ditra to the wooden subfloor, but you need a dryset (unmodified) on top of it. I'm not sure what you have. If you have DitraSet, that's a great unmodified, but you can also use it for setting the Ditra to the floor IF you mix it with their liquid modifier rather than just water (follow the instructions carefully on the proper proportions).
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

Similar Threads

  1. install schluter flange to trap
    By jerome7 in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-09-2013, 09:25 PM
  2. Schluter trim and my install
    By boardable in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-29-2012, 06:28 PM
  3. Schluter's Line Drain - A closer look at the new linear shower drain from Schluter
    By johnfrwhipple in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-15-2011, 07:47 AM
  4. Schluter-Kerdi shower install needed
    By cclearly in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-31-2008, 01:06 PM
  5. can't install shower hot/cold knob! wall tile issue
    By suzie50 in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-24-2007, 05:25 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •