(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: Connect Water Meter Pigtail To New Poly (PE) Water Line

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member AlexS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    20

    Default Connect Water Meter Pigtail To New Poly (PE) Water Line

    I'm a DIY person (not a plumber). My next project: replacing the water line to my rental house. It is 300' to the meter and I'm not looking forward to getting beat-up by the trencher. Going with 1" PE pipe (not PEX), 200 PSI, IPS which is replacing 63-year old 3/4" galvanized . I've read good things about PEX and Poly and decided poly will work as well as PEX (keeping my fingers crossed I made the right choice) I'm told I don't need to bed the poly with sand, but my soil is rocky and strongly considering it. The local utility company told me I have a 5/8 inch meter, 5/8" (in & out) spuds, and 3/4" copper pigtail coming under the sidewalk to the union. After locating the union, it appears the pigtail is 5/8" rather than 3/4".

    Questions:

    I'm researching fittings. I'm connecting 5/8" copper or brass (not sure what the pigtal metal is) to 1" PE pipe. I do not want to do barbed with 2 stainless clamps. I'm willing to spend the extra $ to buy good quality fittings which will last as long as the pipe. Someone recommended a "pack fitting" and I've heard of a couple of different brands. (1) Can anyone made a good recommendation regarding fitting type and brand please? (2) Do I need a separate adaptor to increase from 5/8" to 1"?

    Also, customer service at my water company (Seattle Public Utilities) told me according to their computer system, my meter has never been "renewed". (3) I'm not sure what that means, and (4) whether renewing the meter would make a difference in water pressure and volume? According the the water department's computer, the meter produces 52 PSI. I'm a little concerned regarding pressure and volume due to the 300' distance. There there is also increase in elevation of about 10' from the meter to the house. My fixture count is low (1 full bathroom, 1,300 sf home). Kitchen has dishwasher, icemaker/water dispensor in fridge, 2 outside spigots, utility sink in basement, washer of course, and no outdoor irrigation (no plans for it either). Perhaps a 2nd bathroom one day. My gut tells me that because I have a 5/8" water meter, having a 3/4" pigtail under the sidewalk (rather than 5/8") would result in marginal benefits.

    Attached are pictures of my pigtail joing my existing severely rusty galvanized water supply line.

    Thanks in advance.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  2. #2
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    717

    Default

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a brass male x insert adapter and 2 stainless clamps to connect your poly pipe. When done correctly, the pipe will stretch and pull apart before the connection fails.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member AlexS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Your probably right; done right a barbed fitting will do find. I heard to install the clamps in opposite directions. I'm still like to get some feedback on pack fittings.

  4. #4
    Sprinkler Guy Wet_Boots's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Metro NYC
    Posts
    798

    Default

    Go with a waterworks compression fitting, like a Ford Pack-Joint, along with the stainless steel inner liner that reinforces the poly from the inside. Besides being stronger than any alternative, they save you the grief over the problem of worm-gear clamps not being strong enough to apply the force needed to absolutely guarantee the poly pipe will stay on the insert barbs. As poly pipe gets thicker and denser, the needed clamping force goes up accordingly.

    This isn't saying it can't be accomplished with insert fittings and clamps, given the right clamps and fittings, and maybe a brief shot of heat on the poly, but you are only doing this once, so you might as well make it easy on yourself. Besides Ford, there is McDonald and Mueller, as alternative brands of waterworks fittings.

  5. #5
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,679

    Default

    In the first place there are NO 5/8" fittings. There are 5/8" meters but it is an internal dimension and has nothing to do with the pipe connecton size. Yours appear to be 3/4" copper. There are many ways to connect it to the copper female adapter, i.e., pack, compression, barb, etc.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  6. #6
    DIY Junior Member AlexS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    20

    Default

    I know what a compression fitting is. What does "waterworks" mean? Is that a generic term for outside fittings? I've seen that term used here and there and I'm not sure what it means.

  7. #7
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,679

    Default

    It means one of the fittings usually used by the water company, or companies which install the water mains.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  8. #8
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bothell, Washington
    Posts
    14,214
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    It will be a 3/4" thread coming off the pigtail for the water meter.
    With 300 feet, you would be better off using 1-1/4" Poly
    There is a whole lot of friction loss with 1". And I realize that you only had 3/4" before, but even with a short run, that would have only been good for a one bath home in Seattle.
    Most plumbing supplies have the 3/4" MIP x barbed fittings in brass. I don't think the box stores carry those. Too many pennies for them. HD Fowler also carries Ford fittings for water lines.
    I use the barbed fittings and double hoseclamps on both ends. So a coupling would take four hose clamps.

    Last edited by Terry; 10-26-2013 at 11:46 AM.

  9. #9
    DIY Junior Member AlexS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Terry, thanks for the tip on he 3/4" thread coming off the pigtail.

    I have been going back and forth between 1 1/4" and 1" pipe size. To be honest, I originally decided on 1 1/4" and then read online that pressure drops with each incremental increase in pipe size. I even bought a 300' roll of 1 1/4" that I haven't returned yet. I decided to go with 1" due to (a) smaller 5/8 meter (rather than 3/4), (b) roughly 10-foot increase in elevation from the meter to the house, and (c) supposed 52 PSI produced by the meter (according to Seattle Public Utilities) which I don't think 52 PSi is very strong. Based upon reading various threads on Terry Love's DIY Forum, I understand the following conceptually. There is a difference between Static Pressure and Dynamic Pressure. (keeping in mind I'm a DIYer) Static pressure will be the same no matter what the pipe size. I'm concerned about what happens to Dynamic Pressure with 1 1/4" pipe once the water starts flowing. I'm afraid there will be a pressure drop once someone starts using water resulting in the same experience that occurs now; water shoots-out for 2 seconds due to the build-up of static pressure then pressure tapers-off significantly to a trickle. The volume certainly isn't there. Right now I think I have too small of a pipe due to rust and scale. I afraid 1 1/4" could be too large. I've spent more time figuring pipe size than any other aspect in preparation and I'm still not 100% certain. I think one other reason why I decided on 1" is to play it safe.

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member AlexS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Thanks HJ. By the way, I think you are right regarding the size of the copper being 3/4". Good eye.

  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member AlexS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Terry,

    Checking to see if replying to your last post goes directly to you or if it is added to the thread. I need advice on 1/1/4" or 1" pipe. You can see my concerns on the thread.

    Alex

  12. #12
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    1,283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexS View Post
    I have been going back and forth between 1 1/4" and 1" pipe size. To be honest, I originally decided on 1 1/4" and then read online that pressure drops with each incremental increase in pipe size.
    Smaller pipe will cause more pressure drop than larger pipe.

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member AlexS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reach4 View Post
    Smaller pipe will cause more pressure drop than larger pipe.
    Because if the friction issue? If the pipe is too big, will a drop in pressure occur?

  14. #14
    Nuclear Engineer nukeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    696

    Default

    Yes. It is friction related. Other than cost, there is no real downside going larger on a cold water line. As the pipe gets bigger, that means that the water doesn't have to move as fast for a fix volume of water. The friction is related to how fast the water is flowing, so, less speed means less pressure drop.

    For a hot water line, a line that is too big has a downside other than cost. The water in that line cools off (when you are at work or during the night). When you turn on the shower the next morning, all of that cool water needs to be flushed out before you will get any hot water. If the line is large (and/or long), you will be waiting a long time for the hot water to come (and waste a lot of water in the process).

  15. #15
    DIY Junior Member AlexS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nukeman View Post
    Yes. It is friction related. Other than cost, there is no real downside going larger on a cold water line. As the pipe gets bigger, that means that the water doesn't have to move as fast for a fix volume of water. The friction is related to how fast the water is flowing, so, less speed means less pressure drop.



    For a hot water line, a line that is too big has a downside other than cost. The water in that line cools off (when you are at work or during the night). When you turn on the shower the next morning, all of that cool water needs to be flushed out before you will get any hot water. If the line is large (and/or long), you will be waiting a long time for the hot water to come (and waste a lot of water in the process).
    As long as there is enough pressure to push the larger quantity of water in the larger line to keep up with demand? In other words, if the PSI from the meter was strong, say at least 70 PSI, then I probably wouldn't be concerned. I have 52 PSI, going up a slight grade of roughly 10' in elevation. Is the low PSI and change in elevation an issue?

    I never thought about the quantity of hot water sitting in the pipe needed to be flushed before you mentioned it. Makes sense.
    Last edited by AlexS; 10-22-2013 at 04:01 PM. Reason: inserted my comments in the quote

Similar Threads

  1. Can I connect PEX directly to water meter in basement? (NJ)
    By gil716 in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-14-2011, 06:20 PM
  2. Where to connect hot water recirculation line at water heater?
    By gplumb in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-06-2011, 07:51 AM
  3. Connect a new line to a water softener
    By marky in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-28-2008, 02:07 PM
  4. Replacing water line from meter to house...
    By gdog in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-03-2008, 10:35 PM
  5. Guesstimates for new water line from meter to house
    By bronsonb in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-10-2005, 07:11 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •