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Thread: Generator size for submersible pump

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member VAWellDriller's Avatar
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    I just mentioned the 115 Grundfos because he ALREADY has probably the coolest and nicest generator anyone can buy, the Honda 2000EU. Then he would save lots of money since he wouldn't have to buy another generator.

    DONL -- Inverter generators don't need any batteries connected, not sure what you meant by that, but they are freestanding....they're just great all around. I have a pair of the 2000 eu's and a Honda 7000IS for the house....I have lots of other generators, couple Northern Tool, couple B&S, couple Generac...and I would take the Honda Inverters over all of them.

  2. #17
    DIY Member Arky217's Avatar
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    Yes, I would much, much rather spend even $300 on a better pump if I can run it with my Honda EU2000i, 120 volt generator
    than to spend the $300 on a cheap junkie 240 volt generator.

    There must be something about the Grundfos pump motors that allow them to start on a much lower surge current than conventional motors.
    Their 2 wire, 5gpm, 115v model#5SQ05-180-115v shows to have a FLA rating of 7.7 amps and an overload rating of 11 amps.

    In their technical data, it says under starting current, "The motor starting current is equal to the highest value stated on the motor nameplate".

    If that value is synonomous with what they're calling the overload rating, then I can understand how a Honda EU2000i could
    easily start it.

    Under features, it does say: Soft-Start: Both the SQ and SQE motors have a soft start because of
    the integrated electronics. Soft start reduces the starting current and gives the pump a smooth and steady acceleration.

    Perhaps the 'overload current' IS the actual start surge current; maybe it has something to do with them having permanent-magnet motors.

    Arky

  3. #18
    DIY Senior Member VAWellDriller's Avatar
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    The grundfos 3" motors are very, very high RPM motors...which makes me think they must have relatively low torque. They also have a very slow start, probably a full second or more to full speed....if you start one out of the water, it sounds like a dremel.

  4. #19
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    VA, the high RPM is because of the fact that it is a 3" pump and it needs that much speed to make the necessary pressure and flow (smaller impellers vs. a 4" pump).

    They have low starting current because they do take a few seconds to wind up-they don't surge on start-up.

    Also, I would mention that if your well makes any sand or grit this pump would not be a good choice due to the high rpm's. Overall I have never heard anyone say they didn't last a long time except for if the well makes sand, and then all pumps have a shortened life.

  5. #20
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAWellDriller View Post
    I just mentioned the 115 Grundfos because he ALREADY has probably the coolest and nicest generator anyone can buy, the Honda 2000EU. Then he would save lots of money since he wouldn't have to buy another generator.

    DONL -- Inverter generators don't need any batteries connected, not sure what you meant by that, but they are freestanding....they're just great all around. I have a pair of the 2000 eu's and a Honda 7000IS for the house....I have lots of other generators, couple Northern Tool, couple B&S, couple Generac...and I would take the Honda Inverters over all of them.

    My comment was more about going off Grid. Normally that is what generators can help you do.

    If you are charging and running batteries you can run the Inverter , without the generator running.

    Then you can just run the gen, when the batteries need charged, or charge them with Solar or Wind.

    It makes the electrical switch over easy, and safe. But it has its losses.


    Have Fun, Be careful Playing with Electricity.
    Last edited by DonL; 10-22-2013 at 06:45 AM.
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  6. #21
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    Actually I think he was referring to an "inverter-generator" like the Honda EU2000i that uses inverter technology to run efficiently. It speeds up/slows down depending on load, whereas most gennies stay at a constant speed (either 3600 or 1800 rpm).

  7. #22
    DIY Member Arky217's Avatar
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    Default Update on Grundfos pumps

    "Their 2 wire, 5gpm, 115v model#5SQ05-180-115v shows to have a FLA rating of 7.7 amps and an overload rating of 11 amps."

    Just got off the phone with Grundfos technical support.
    They confirmed that the starting current for this model pump is indeed 11 amps.
    And that the pump runs at 10,800 rpm.

    I also asked about the built in dry running protection, and they claim that if the pump runs
    out of water, that it will automatically shut off with no damage, then attempt to automatically restart after a while.

    At any rate, it seems to be the pump for my situation seeing as how I will need to run it intermittently for about 6 to 12 months
    with my Honda EU2000i until I get grid power hooked up.
    Also, the Honda will provide a backup during power outages later on.

    I haven't found this pump for less than $600 anywhere; that's about $150 more than I was planning on with a similar 240v
    Goulds pump. But if it's just as good a quality as a Goulds, that makes more sense than putting $300/$400 into a cheap
    imported generator just to run the pump.

    Thanks for all the replies,
    Arky

  8. #23
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Wellman View Post
    Actually I think he was referring to an "inverter-generator" like the Honda EU2000i that uses inverter technology to run efficiently. It speeds up/slows down depending on load, whereas most gennies stay at a constant speed (either 3600 or 1800 rpm).

    I think it is best to size using a Inverter type if you can.

    Expecting a gen to stay at 50-60 HZ may not happen , When you need a pure sin-wave there may be no other choice.


    A hand pump works the best. If you have food.
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  9. #24
    DIY Senior Member guy48065's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    When you need a pure sin-wave there may be no other choice.
    Love how most of the examples of products that "need" pure sine wave power are low=power devices that have their own built-in DC supply. Somehow that low-level 3rd-order distortion from a standard genny miraculously passes right through transformers and filters.

    Something that's always confused me...quality pure-sine inverters are very expensive. You see them often in sailboats & such and a 2000W unit can cost $1000-$2000. How is it you can get a Pure-sine gas-powered genny for less? Engines, fuel tanks, alternators are free these days? Something's fishy about the claims...
    Romeo and Atlanta, MI

  10. #25
    DIY Senior Member VAWellDriller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy48065 View Post
    Love how most of the examples of products that "need" pure sine wave power are low=power devices that have their own built-in DC supply. Somehow that low-level 3rd-order distortion from a standard genny miraculously passes right through transformers and filters.

    Something that's always confused me...quality pure-sine inverters are very expensive. You see them often in sailboats & such and a 2000W unit can cost $1000-$2000. How is it you can get a Pure-sine gas-powered genny for less? Engines, fuel tanks, alternators are free these days? Something's fishy about the claims...
    I wonder about pure sine wave crap too; seems like a ripoff to me....I have inverters in all of my service trucks and my personal vehicle....They are all relatively low cost modified sine wave, either Vector or Duracell brand....we tried one and loved it and installed 4 more over 5 years ago. No problems whatsoever....we run battery chargers, hand tools, work lights, computers, well video equipment, dvd recorders, and the 1/2 hp grundfos pump all the time and have never had a problem with any of the inverters or any of the items we've used with them. They are a lifesaver to me and get used in some respect every day.

  11. #26
    In the Trades Texas Wellman's Avatar
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    You mind sharing some model #'s and other information? I would like to install one in my hoist, about 2,000 watts.

  12. #27
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Wellman View Post
    You mind sharing some model #'s and other information? I would like to install one in my hoist, about 2,000 watts.

    This is good bang for the buck.

    http://www.amazon.com/Whistler-Pro-2.../dp/B003R7LQDI

    http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-CPI-2575.../dp/B00126K8DA

    It would need to be mounted at the battery, with the engine running. 200-250 Amps is a bit.
    Last edited by DonL; 10-23-2013 at 08:00 AM.
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  13. #28
    DIY Senior Member VAWellDriller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Wellman View Post
    You mind sharing some model #'s and other information? I would like to install one in my hoist, about 2,000 watts.
    I have (2) Duracell, 1000/2000 run/surge
    (2) Vector 1000/2000
    (1) Vector 750/1500

    I don't think either of these brands are made anymore, but you might find someone with some leftovers...I just searched Amazon for Vector 1000 inverter and found one for $166.00.

    One thing to note, you'll need to use big cables. I have mine on #2 gauge and they are about 8-10' from the battery. I mount them upside down under a shelf in the service body and it is nicely out of the way.

  14. #29
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAWellDriller View Post
    I have (2) Duracell, 1000/2000 run/surge
    (2) Vector 1000/2000
    (1) Vector 750/1500

    I don't think either of these brands are made anymore, but you might find someone with some leftovers...I just searched Amazon for Vector 1000 inverter and found one for $166.00.

    One thing to note, you'll need to use big cables. I have mine on #2 gauge and they are about 8-10' from the battery. I mount them upside down under a shelf in the service body and it is nicely out of the way.

    Them are nice play toys.

    Get a 2500 W and do it right. Mount it very near the battery. 1-2 Feet.

    Yes large wire is required.
    Last edited by DonL; 10-23-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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  15. #30
    DIY Senior Member VAWellDriller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    Them are nice play toys.

    Get a 2500 W and do it right. Mount it very near the battery. 1-2 Feet.

    Yes large wire is required.
    Got the 750 as a gift, and the others on really good sales, that's how I ended up with that size; figured I'd go up a size when one of these ever fails.....

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