(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Plumber cut exterior concrete block support wall for 2 1/2 drain pipe.

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member ricklarson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    4

    Default Plumber cut exterior concrete block support wall for 2 1/2 drain pipe.

    Hi, I know nothing about plumbing or concrete block construction. I am doing a low cost remodel and am new to florida. I don't know if I can trust this plumber's advice that the section of concrete block that he cut will not impact the structure.
    He was going to cut into the concrete slab, but at the last minute, he cut through the wall. I'm concerned that it has impacted the soundness of the structure. No rebar was in what he cut and the blocks he cut through were hollow. Also, do the copper pipes that are now strapped to the outside of the wall need to be protected with any material since they are against concrete. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Please, see the pictures
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bothell, Washington
    Posts
    14,191
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Hmmm..........
    I've never seen anyone knock out concrete blocks to run a pipe like that.
    I think most of us would have run it outside the wall.

    If the copper isn't touching the wall, you're okay. Those plastic clips should hold it off the wall. We do use tape or plastic on pipes to prevent contact with concrete.

  3. #3
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,374

    Default

    I think a building inspector would have a fit! Did a plumbing permit get pulled? Has it been inspected yet? A permit with its associated inspection is often ignored, but is still required for both the safety of you and the building.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #4
    DIY Senior Member Hammerlane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ricklarson View Post
    Any input would be greatly appreciated. Please, see the pictures
    Only input you should be looking for is for those block to be put back. I would withhold any payment due for repairs to this wall.

  5. #5
    DIY Junior Member ricklarson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Ok, so it sounds like he knew what he was doing with the copper piping, but not with the PVC. He was going to tie in under the kitchen floor and I guess he couldn't find the line there, so
    he made a decision without our talking about it, to go into the exterior concrete block wall. I guess to put new concrete block back in (suggested by the other posts), he will need to remove the copper piping?
    Do you know of a structural engineering site that might offer insight as to whether or not the wall is now out of integrity?


    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Hmmm..........
    I've never seen anyone knock out concrete blocks to run a pipe like that.
    I think most of us would have run it outside the wall.

    If the copper isn't touching the wall, you're okay. Those plastic clips should hold it off the wall. We do use tape or plastic on pipes to prevent contact with concrete.

  6. #6
    DIY Junior Member ricklarson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    4

    Default

    You have no idea how much I wish I had insisted on his pulling a permit. I was trying to do this remodel fast and on a conservative budget so that my pregnant wife and I could get in quickly. Now, it looks like I've created a bit of a mess; don't think I could have a permit pulled after work is done. Really concerned about the structural integrity of the wall.

    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    I think a building inspector would have a fit! Did a plumbing permit get pulled? Has it been inspected yet? A permit with its associated inspection is often ignored, but is still required for both the safety of you and the building.

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member ricklarson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerlane View Post
    Only input you should be looking for is for those block to be put back. I would withhold any payment due for repairs to this wall.
    I guess now I need to figure out how to do that.

  8. #8
    DIY Senior Member dj2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    311

    Default

    A permit can be pulled after work has begun (in my city at least) - it's not the end of the world. The building department actually encourages folks to pull permits, so they don't find themselves in your situation.

    Your bigger concern should be the damaged wall. Fix it right away.

  9. #9
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    ct
    Posts
    710

    Default

    It's pretty simple,

    No permit and inspection, no payment

  10. #10
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,602

    Default

    In new construction we OFTEN have to install PVC/ABS pipes in the outside wall. The masons cut the blocks down the middle and put one half on the outside to make a "smooth wall". The inside is either left open, like yours, or the cut portion is "buttered" in, (assuming the pipe is far enough back into the wall so it will fit in front of it, which yours is not), but has absolutely NO structural effect on the wall. It is purely cosmetic. Connecting in the wall would have made the most sense, time and money wise. He could have installed the pipe outside of the block, IF you wanted to use wider furring strips.
    Last edited by hj; 10-20-2013 at 07:32 AM.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  11. #11
    DIY Member WorthFlorida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lake Worth, Florida
    Posts
    95

    Default

    I doubt this is really a good practice but the wall integrity isn't all that is compromised. At this point I would call the building inspectors dept of your county or city and asked them. Inspectors are there for your protection, not the contractors. Permits generally are about $150. Larger projects such as adding a room, etc. maybe a percentage (4% for Wellington, FL) of the contract. I attached a picture of a typical block. Probably 1/3-1/2 of the block was chipped away and it is still quite strong but it may not meet code.

    The wall on the right is framed and the corner stud is cut. It may not be a supporting wall but that 2x4 was cut completely. Regardless, three or more 4" Tapcons should be drilled through the 2x4 into the block. It appears to be a jack stud since there is a horizontal 2x4 on top of it.

    FYI... When block walls are built, at the corners of the house the outside wall of the lowest block is punched out. Then a 10" or 12" high concrete lintel is poured on top of the block wall. While pouring the concrete into the forms, the concrete flows down the corner blocks until it exits the punched out block at the bottom. Therefore, the outside corner is a concrete post. This makes for an extremely strong structure for all loads above the block wall. For the most part the block wall is only holding itself, not the roof since the concrete lintel spreads the load. Most Florida homes the top of the window is at the lintel. My Florida home was built in 1990 and it has the concrete lintel and all homes I've seen built since then do, but older one story homes may not have a lintel but only at the windows.

    Check out this document.
    http://www.nudura.com/Libraries/Inst..._USA.sflb.ashx

    Name:  Cement Block.jpg
Views: 197
Size:  19.3 KB
    Last edited by WorthFlorida; 10-20-2013 at 07:57 AM.

  12. #12
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,602

    Default

    quote; When block walls are built, at the corners of the house the outside wall of the lowest block is punched out. Then a 10" or 12" high concrete lintel is poured on top of the block wall.

    Maybe where you are, but in most cases the block "cells" are poured full of grout every 4' or so, (the grout automatically flows all the way to the bottom so the bottom block does not need a hole in it), and the there top row usually has a notch on every block so when concrete is poured into the ENTIRE top row, it creates a bond beam, usually with rebar in it. THAT and the cement "columns" are what holds the building up, NOT the concrete block between them.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  13. #13
    TROJAN WORLDWIDE SALES RP MACPLUMB 777's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas, United States
    Posts
    631
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Block wall or not one thing for sure is that expanding foam does not
    make a water tite wall ! !

    MACPLUMB 777

    E-MAIL
    JERRYMAC@TROJANWORLDWIDE.COM


    35 YEAR MASTER PLUMBER, HEATING, ELECTRIC, DRAINS, FIRE SPRINKLERS, WATER HEATER
    AND BOILERS SINCE JAN, 1989

    281-706-1631 7 DYS A WEEK SALES AND TECH. SUPPORT
    Trojan Worldwide Web Site


     



  14. #14
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,602

    Default

    quote; expanding foam does not
    make a water tite wall ! !

    Neither does concrete blocks. Waterproofing is done by whatever is applied to the OUTSIDE of the blocks., and that was not compromised by installing the piping.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  15. #15
    DIY Member yngwie_69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    prince rupert, BC
    Posts
    61

    Default

    wow thats horrible, copper on concrete, sloppy solder job, hope that water is from the job and not a leak. I would of ran it on the outside wall and built the wall out to hide it. If thats a drain or vent all the weight is going to go to that 90 or 2 45 fitting,

Similar Threads

  1. Grohe 35015 valve installed inside concrete block wall
    By margied489 in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-02-2012, 08:42 PM
  2. Drain leak within concrete block wall
    By particularg8r in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-25-2011, 06:51 PM
  3. Ways to support a pipe 2 feet or so off of wall?
    By jakkwylde in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-18-2009, 02:14 PM
  4. Basement bathroom shower drain in concrete block
    By JImmyB in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-31-2007, 01:40 PM
  5. Installing additional sink drain through concrete block...
    By djvybz in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-28-2006, 10:12 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •