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Thread: Need help with Fleck 7000SXT programming

  1. #31
    DIY Junior Member 65Mustang's Avatar
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    Ok, I ran a re-gen overnight with these settings:

    C = 30
    H = 14
    SF= 20
    RC= 150
    DO= 14 (left as 14 days per suggestion)
    B1=10
    BD=60
    B2=5
    RR=10
    BF=20 (for 32000 grains capacity based on 60 gallons per day, 5 people, 14 grains hardness and 7 day re-gen with 24 hour reserve).
    FM=t1.5

    Unfortunately, my volume remaining on the Display is not changing. Yesterday, the reading was 2581. This morning it was 2318. Usually after a re-gen, I would get a volume remaining reading around 6700. Also, no improvement in soft water feeling.

    Why didnt the reading increase to some higher value ?
    What might be wrong ?

    Advice appreciated.

  2. #32
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    The easy answer would be that it did not regenerate for some reason. Maybe you set the clock to wrong (AM/PM too)? Maybe you did not press the Extra Cycle button hard enough to make the service icon (faucet icon) flash? Maybe the system is defective. :-(

    Queueing a Regeneration
    1. Press the Extra Cycle button. The service icon will flash to indicate that a regeneration is queued.
    2. To cancel a queued regeneration, press the Extra Cycle button.
    Regenerating Immediately
    Press and hold the Extra Cycle button for five seconds.
    I would invite everybody to use the toilet etc. Then I would trigger an immediate regen by holding in the Extra Cycle button for five seconds. Sit with the unit, keep a log, look in the brine container to see the brine go down. The first step is the backwash, and you should see/hear water draining. The next step is brine draw. See how far down the brine falls.

    If somebody needs to use water during regen, that is not a big deal-- it will be unsoftened water.

  3. #33
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    I will post a programming guide tomorrow if I have time.

    Check to see if the FM=t1.5 can be set to t1.2

  4. #34
    DIY Junior Member 65Mustang's Avatar
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    Actually FM is set to t1.2. I did watch the system re-gen at the start. Saw the B1 cycle go 10 minutes with running water throughout, then saw the brine draw begin through the small external hose at the start of the 60 minute BD cycle. Where do I check to see the brine draw go down during this cycle ? In the small pipe in the Brine Tank?

    I just emptied out the Softener container, no salt bridge encountered. Left just 12 inches of buttons only (no powder).

  5. #35
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65Mustang View Post
    Where do I check to see the brine draw go down during this cycle ? In the small pipe in the Brine Tank?

    I just emptied out the Softener container, no salt bridge encountered. Left just 12 inches of buttons only (no powder).
    With most of the salt out of the way, just look into the brine tank. If you can see down the small pipe with your bright LED flashlight, good. Otherwise, I would just scoop the remaining salt to one side so I could see near the bottom.

    So after your immediate cycle, did the number on the display go up as hoped? Also, how is the hardness for the cold water in the kitchen now?

  6. #36
    DIY Junior Member 65Mustang's Avatar
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    Looking down the small pipe in the Brine Tank, I can see water near the bottom. The float is at the bottom. Also, the capacity on the display is at 2050 (never went up). Finally, the hardness at the kitchen cold outlet is still 12 (as it was before I started messing with settings).

    Me thinks this unit is not softening. Do I start trouble-shooting the re-gen period ? Any other checks I should make before I regen ?

    Thanks all for sticking with me on this.

  7. #37
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 65Mustang View Post
    Looking down the small pipe in the Brine Tank, I can see water near the bottom. The float is at the bottom. Also, the capacity on the display is at 2050 (never went up). Finally, the hardness at the kitchen cold outlet is still 12 (as it was before I started messing with settings).

    Me thinks this unit is not softening. Do I start trouble-shooting the re-gen period ? Any other checks I should make before I regen ?

    Thanks all for sticking with me on this.
    I think that you are saying that the brine level is near the bottom, even after the whole operation is complete. We would have expected 4 gallons of water to be added during the 20 minute brine refill.

    I would add maybe 5 gallons of water manually (with a bucket). Let it sit for a day to dissolve salt. Put the system through an immediate cycle as you watch again. Confirm that the brine get drawn out. Confirm the brine does not refill. Test your water at the kitchen. With the results, I think somebody will probably be able to suggest how to proceed.

  8. #38
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    After pouring in the water, you can start a regen in 2 hours. Did the unit come with a salt grid? If so, does the water come above it? Did you add water to the brine tank when you installed it before adding salt?

  9. #39
    DIY Junior Member 65Mustang's Avatar
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    Last night, I removed some salt pellets and checked the water level in the brine tank. It was just below the plastic deck. I added 1 gallon of water so that the water level was now above the deck. I added more salt to cover the water and let it sit the night.

    This morning I removed a layer of salt so that I could see the water level. Still about one inch above the deck. Re-gen settings confirmed to be:

    B1=10
    BD=60
    B2=5
    RR=10
    BF=20
    Other settings:
    C=40
    H=14

    Started a re-gen cycle. B1 cycle completed in 10 minutes with water flow observed at the exhaust. The BD cycle started, I observed flow in the brine hose start. Water solution in the brine tank disappeared below the deck in a few minutes. 13 minutes into the cycle, the brine in the brine hose stopped flowing. I let the BD cycle complete its 60 minutes step but no further flow occurred in the brine hose. B2 Step completed in 5 minutes, as did the RR cycle in 10 minutes. Observed flow out the exhaust for both. The BF cycle started and observed water flow down the brine flow into the brine tank. After the BF cycle completed in 20 minutes , the water level in the Brine tank barely reached the deck.

    The capacity reading before I started the re-gen was 1909. After the re-gen, I show 2326. So, the extra gallon of water helped to increase the capacity.

    Did a Hach water check at the faucet, still reading hardness at 12. Not sure why Im not getting a lower number.

    Any suggestions on my next change ?

    Thanks again . 65Mustang

  10. #40
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    I think your experiments have narrowed the problem.It seems clear that the problem is with the brine refill. You expect 4 gallons, and you did not get even a gallon. I hope more experienced folks will be suggesting how to remove a clog in that path. With a symptom like that, somebody could point out a probable fix, or at least a small list. Brine is being drawn. It is not refilling.

    You could manually step right to the refill phase if you like, but I think the symptom has been defined pretty well. Maybe manually doing the refill phase a few times could tell if there was just a way-low brine fill or no fill at all.

    But regarding the test with adding your own water, I would go ahead and give that 4 or even 5 gallons to get things softened, after you let that sit long enough to salt, and trigger another early regeneration. You could trigger that to occur during the night. I predict your brine level will then be back low in the morning.

    But at least you will have soft water in the morning. Remember to run that tap long enough to get water through the softener.

    One more thing: the softener logic acted as if there had been 4 gallons of brine used, rather than 1, so its capacity remaining will be significantly optimistic.

    I am attaching a sticker identifying the BLFC (brine level fill control) button rating on a 5600 controller. This one says
    .50 GPM
    1.5 LB
    SALT/MIN
    Name:  huge_5600BLFC.jpg
Views: 97
Size:  47.0 KB I was wondering if you might have missed a similar label on your 7000 near where the brine tube attaches to your controller. I know you looked before, but maybe your eyes were on the lookout for a white label?
    Last edited by Reach4; 11-23-2013 at 10:22 PM.

  11. #41
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    You have one of 2 problems or even both. 1. Float not properly set for grid plate 2. Brine fill not properly set for refill flow control. Pull the float assemble. Notice the words "check height" on the air check itself. This should be level with the grid plate. Find the flow control sticker and post the number or measure the flow gpm and post.

  12. #42
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I'm going to disagree with a grid needing the air check at the height of the grid. Or, to have to be an inch above the grid when Refill is finished. If the grid is plastic and has hollow legs that salt gets down into, the refill water dissolves salt just fine because it is lighter than the brine and goes to the top of the brine where it dissolves salt just fine. And there is always some brine left in all salt tanks for that to happen. Well, unless a grid does not allow salt below the surface of the grid, and I haven't seen or heard of one of them in the last 15 to 20 years.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
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  13. #43
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    I went on a service call years ago and as soon as I removed the brine tank lid the woman told me the salt has not moved since it was installed 2 yrs prior. I found the air check was on the botton of the tank. The only thing I did was cut off several inches and told her I would check back in a month. That must have been the issue because when I tested the water again, it was soft. The grid plates I have dealt with do have holes in the feet so water can dissolve the salt. But as to your own admission, brine is heavier than plain water so I don't see how "all" the water can become saturated when it can not travel "up" the legs of the grid plate. IMO, you will never get soft water as long as the level of the water does not come up past the grid plate.

  14. #44
    DIY Junior Member 65Mustang's Avatar
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    I found a white sticker on the head. It shows:

    BLFC = 0.125 GPM
    DLFC GPM

    Also note that when I started the re-gen the other day, there was approximately 4 gallons of water solution in the brine tank, just under the plastic deck. I added 1 gallon to make it approximately 5 gallons. So I re-gened with 1 extra gallon (not 1 gallon total).

    I believe because of the additional 1 gallon of water I added, the final capacity reading went from 1909 to 2326. I just checked again and there is water to the bottom of the deck, so Im thinking there is still 4 gallons in the brine tank.

    What is the Grid plate ? Is that the plastic "deck" at the bottom of the brine tank ? If so, I did observe salt in the feet.

    Also, if the BD cycle is 60 minutes and I only observed 13 minutes of flow, shouldn't there be more water to draw from or the cycle reduced ?

  15. #45
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    My main problem with relying on the holes in the leg of the grid plate is that they can and do get clogged. When we do large industrial brine grids, we always make sure the water level goes at least 1" above the grid.

    That being said, regular cleaning of the brine tank should be done and would allow the holes in the bottom of the legs to work properly.

    As to your hard water after a regeneration, I am going to recommend the next step, make sure the softener feeds the location you are testing. Kitchen sinks are regularly bypassed of hard water, in older installations, the toilets may even be bypassed. The bypass valve can be used to turn the water off to the house. Turn the bypass handle so the holes are vertical on the outlet of the system.

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