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Thread: Help with 11" rough in - which toilet?

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Stitches's Avatar
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    Default Help with 11" rough in - which toilet?

    I've had this confirmed with the plumber - it's 11" rough in from the wall. Our space is very limited. Current toilet is 26.5 inches deep. I can go about another half inch outwards without it confining us too much. I'd also like the higher toilet seat. Is there a toilet out there for me?
    My plumber and contractor are NO help to me at all in deciding on a toilet. I think that they just want to re-install what is there (very old AS toilet that uses way too much water) so they aren't having to purchase and then take back toilets that won't work. I'm fine with letting them re-install and then get someone ele to come out later - we already did this in the other bath. In that bathroom, it is a 12 inch rough in exactly - so I knew I was even more limited there as far as depth went.
    But, am I correct in assuming that if the schematics show 1" clearance from the wall, I can use a 12" toilet, and just push the toilet all the way to the wall, and it should meet that 11" rough in? Both of my toilets are pushed in all the way. Both are American Standard.
    Thanks for any help you can give us!

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The TOTO Drake works at 10-7/8"
    The round bowl would be 26.5" from wall to end of bowl on an 11" rough.
    Their taller bowl, C744EL is elongated at 28"
    That fits with either the ST743S or ST743E tank.

    There are also a few tall, round bowls, but I'm not sure what the back clearance is.

    When you are sitting down, the knees are in the same position regardless of whether it's round or elongated.
    Last edited by Terry; 10-09-2013 at 09:39 AM.

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    DIY Junior Member Stitches's Avatar
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    Thanks, but I guess this will still be too deep at 28". This bath/toilet area is extremely tight. The contractor has been saying he can't imagine what the builder was thinking when he built these bathrooms like this. I know Toto is the best, and I was hoping for that, but may have to look elsewhere for a tall yet short toilet. Do you think the Gerber Avalanche would work? I know they aren't as good as the Toto, but with my limited choices.....

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Is the issue a door swing? If so, what some people have done is to change the door to a pocket door or a surface sliding door (sort of like a high-tech barn door). These can be had with locks or latches, should that be an issue. You're going to have to probably live with the thing for a few decades...and, you'll really like the extra height as you age. Best not to compromise on something that will get used on a regular basis.

    Gerber doesn't fare too well in some of the user testing. You might find it fine, since nobody's the same.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #5
    DIY kid who loves toilets Starwarsith88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitches View Post
    Thanks, but I guess this will still be too deep at 28". This bath/toilet area is extremely tight. The contractor has been saying he can't imagine what the builder was thinking when he built these bathrooms like this. I know Toto is the best, and I was hoping for that, but may have to look elsewhere for a tall yet short toilet. Do you think the Gerber Avalanche would work? I know they aren't as good as the Toto, but with my limited choices.....
    You might be able to install a 10 or 12 rough inch toilet in your space. Also, if you need a comfort height with a round front, I recommend the Kohler Cimarron Class 5. I know people say the bowl wash sucks but it has improved and is MUCH better now. My grandparents have one and no problem. It should fit perfect in your space. Also, you might be able to get a TOTO Drake II round with comfort height. I have never used a Drake II but looks like a good toilet.
    If you need to go with a new toilet, go with a TOTO!

  6. #6
    DIY Junior Member Stitches's Avatar
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    Yes, it is both the door swing, and the space in general. Toilet is situated to the left of an inward opening door. It could be deeper than it was with the AS toilet (26.5" from wall) without door interference, but 28" is about the max. Otherwise, it'll extend beyond the door frame.
    The tub is alongside the toilet, with the plumbing on the same wall. The longer the toilet, the more crowded to exit the tub and dry off. We are considering a pocket door later on when we can afford it.

    Next question: I see the Toto Promenade CST 423SF (G) is only 26.125 inches deep, 12" RI and they give 3/4 inch clearance behind that toilet, so we might still be off by a quarter inch. Does anyone know if that one will fit on the 11" RI?
    The regular Drake that Terry referenced is 14.5 high. I don't see any Drake II round fronts on the Toto website.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    All you have to do is the math.

    If there is 3/4" behind the toilet when it's on 12", then it won't fit on 11" rough-in, because that removes an inch and all you have is 3/4". Get it?

    That's why the Drake will fit on 11" (if it's truly 11"). You said you confirmed it with the plumber. If it were I, I would confirm it with the tape measure. Measure from FINISHED wall (not baseboard) to the center of the closet bolts. Then the distance from the wall to the front of the Drake toilet will be the toilet length plus about 1/8" (because you only need a distance of about 10-7/8 on which to fit the drake, since it has about 1-1/8" between the rearmost part of it and the wall when mounted on a 12" rough-in). And we mean the original Drake (CST743 or CST744), not the Drake II.

    Very simple. If you want 26.5, then get the non-ADA-height Toto Drake CST743E (1.28gpf) or CST743S (1.6 gpf).

    If you can handle 28", then get the ADA-height elongated Drake: CST744EL (1.28 gpf) or the CST744SL (1.6gpf). Terry was giving you the bowl number ("C" as the prefix) and the tank number ("ST" prefix) separately. I am giving you the full toilet model number ("CST"), which may make it easier to research or order.

    Totally thorough and correct answer
    Terry
    Last edited by Terry; 10-11-2013 at 04:09 PM.

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    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    I think Promenade is 26.25. Also check Dalton.

    It is unlikely that your rough-in is exactly 11 inches. I think you should measure very carefully. If you are concerned at how to measure to the center of a bolt or cover, measure from the wall to the front of the screw. Measure to the back screw. Take the average.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    measure from the wall to the front of the screw. Measure to the back screw. Take the average.
    I like wall to center of the hold down bolt.
    On some things I do center to center is a good one too.

    I've heard of measure twice and cut once, but I don't think they were talking about averages.
    I even bend my tape to create a slide rule to be more accurate and do away with math.

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    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    I was thinking some people can measure to edges and are not used to eyeballing the middle. Probably a dumb idea, since most/all toilet bolt covers are domed and do not present a good edge anyway. I will generally measure to the left and right of a stud both rather than eyeballing the center.

    In this case, a 4th or 5th measurement seems worthwhile. I think you would agree that an "11 inch" measurement is suspect. Heck, I would be using square.. a combination square would be nice for this. But then I am slow.

  11. #11
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I do everything with a tape measure. Even adding and subtracting.
    And I like my tapes simple, with the little lines, the same lines on both sides. I don't need metric on one side, and don't need someone to tell me what an 1/8" is, or 5/8", just small lines.
    Sometimes, the more simple it is, the fewer mistakes you make.
    We measure once every time and we're right every time. Yes...........we're that good.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    Last edited by Terry; 10-11-2013 at 04:07 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member Stitches's Avatar
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    Here is the latest. After the contractor removed the toilet and baseboard, a different plumber (one I trust more) came today, and he found the rough to be exactly 10.5, and is telling me that I will need a 10" rough in toilet. We re-measured, seeing the actual hole for the bolt, and that is correct. So, I'm being told to get the Kohler Cimarron in 10". That toilet is going to cost $643 installed, and DH is not happy, lol.
    There is an American Standard, Cadet 3 Round Front, 1.6 Right Height. According to the specs, it goes 26.25 from the wall, so we may go that way. I will call a local supplier tomorrow. I sure hate the idea of a toilet coming via UPS.
    Last edited by Terry; 10-16-2013 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #13
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I sell the Cadet 3 with 10" tank option every so often. I would check to find it locally.
    The Cimmarron option would be fine too.
    I tend to sell the TOTO Drake 10", the Cadet 3 10", Vespin II with 10", Aquia with 10" bowl.
    There are plenty of 10" options.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Here's the spec sheet for the Toto Aquia dual-flush, an excellent toilet, with a 10" rough-in. 27.5", plus the 1/2" extra = 28", plus 3/4" behind the toilet. http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/Pro...ST412MF.10.pdf

  15. #15
    DIY Junior Member Stitches's Avatar
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    Thanks so much everyone. I'm going to call a local supply company today, and see if we can get that Cadet 3. The reviews on it are very iffy, but DH is adamant about not spending the money on a pocket door, and we are really worried that even if the door doesn't hit the toilet, it will be a hassle for larger people to get in and out of that room with the longer toilets.

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