(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 84

Thread: Plywood thickness under tile

  1. #16
    DIY Member Justadrip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    52

    Default

    You gotta love someone who thinks he knows better than hundreds of engineers, multiple testing agencies, thousands and thousands of installs, and years and years of experience, that his way is the only way to do something, and better than anyone else's.
    And dont question it!
    Keep giving good info Jim based on facts not "because i said so".

  2. #17
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    That report was read years ago, but the details stuck with me. Not worth trying to find. Can you find that old magazine or article you read 5-10 years ago?

    A couple of personal examples of stressing the system:
    1. For the first 8-years or so I had a waterbed in my bedroom. I ran the numbers, and the bed was about 30#/sqft. Then add in the frame, the carpet, the subflooring, and it was close to the 40# dead load. Not all that much in the rest of the room, but it was not empty. It so happens that each wall is load bearing around the perimeter of the room. There's a non-load-bearing partition wall slightly to the side of where the bed was placed under this room. The wall ran parallel with the joists, and was not on one. I noticed a crack in the opening between rooms down below in the drywall, and when I did some remodeling of the rooms below found that that non-load-bearing wall had been pressed about 3/4" down...it had literally bent the subflooring into a z-shape, since it was fairly close to a joist. This from a design/build to the specs of 40/10 with a load less than the design. It took a bunch of years to occur. The wood has some elasticity and plasticity to it, but apply a load at or near its design limits, and when it bends, it does not bend back. The plasticity of it allowed it to bend rather than break because the load was applied continually over a long time. The crack didn't close up when I replaced the mattress with a conventional one, either...the stuff had taken a set.

    2. Have a small deck off the dining room that had cantilevered joists - about 3/4'rs under the interior, and 1/4 outside (sitting over the outside wall). Edges supported with diagonals to the walls. Over about 15-years, probably from a snow load that was intermittent, the dining room crowned about 3"! Call it an inverse load, if you will. The deck was redesigned by an engineer, and replaced. The load path strengthened and hung from the rim joist with steel shell for support. No further problems.

    Both of these are to illustrate that it can take some time to make any observation of overloading a structure. You hear of reports of decks falling down, partly because they tend to have an accumulation of people partying, but overloaded is still overloaded, and things can only bend so far. My personal examples don't show catastrophic failures, but that things do bend, and eventually if the load is applied continuously and over the design strength, it won't spring back.

    Let's take a shower, from FL's state design guidelines (the first ones I found on a quick search), 1" mudbed is about 12#/sqft. In a shower of any size, using a conventional clamping drain, it probably averages 3", so you have 36#/sqft. Now, throw on some tile, averaging say 4#/sqft, you're at the max design dead load of any room without the subflooring (or extra blocking you want). THen, add in that extra layer of plywood, the room, already overweight, now is even more overloaded. We haven't added in the partition walls for the side of the shower....let's say it's 4x8 and you've tiled to the ceiling...that's about 320# if you're using say granite or marble on only a few square feet and we haven't included the cbu, studs, waterproofing, etc., you need to actually build a shower wall. In your high-end house, let's say you have CI drain lines...throw in another few hundred pounds for the bathroom and that big, two sink vanity with 3cm granite counter, maybe another thousand pounds by the time the silly thing is loaded up and you count the two sinks, faucets, tiled or stone backsplash, etc. Add in the water closet (toilet), with the tank full, probably close to 100#. Maybe add a bidet. THen, cause it's an upscale house, you have a nice big CI whirlpool (no cheesy plastic tubs here!) at 400# or more then add a mortar bed, and a tiled raised platform. It all adds up. Average this out over the room, and you can easily exceed the 40+10, and you haven't filled the tub or put anyone into it.

    So, as I said, there's a cost/benefit/risk to any build. Adding in more when you don't need it is not good design, it's dangerous with short sight. These things do not happen overnight...they take time, like that barn in the country with the wavy ridge line. They happen way past the typical 1-year warranty of most installs, and may take decades. Far enough into the future, where it gets shrugged off, or they've decided to remodel anyway...but, they are real.

    Wood in Europe is usually reserved for decorative surfaces, and is not used as structural very often today. They don't have the luxury of large forests they're willing to cut down anywhere near the scale that is typical in the NA continent. They tend to have lots more brick and concrete structures. This tends to have MUCH higher design load capability than the typical stick built house in North America. It doesn't seem strange to me that they may have adopted different methods to do things...weight doesn't factor into things anywhere near as much. Trying to emulate their methods when the infrastructure is different can be problematic. In my view, anyway, that's one good reason why some of the installation instructions differ in region to region. That does NOT mean one is better than the other. You have to know when enough is enough and adapt to the situation. Telling the world your way is the only way and any other is junk is pretty narrow minded. Your knocking the manufacturer's instructions as unreliable and incorrect when testing has proven over and over again that it works is pretty pompous. Advocating belt and suspenders, when it adds cost, time, materials, weight just doesn't add up except in your mind.

    Enough for now...this is really getting old. In my view, needed, though, as counter-point. Just read the manufacturer's instructions, follow them. If you don't understand, seek guidance. It works as designed.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 10-10-2013 at 08:20 PM. Reason: fixed psi to #/sqft
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  3. #18
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    John, prior to the post in this thread, I'd not heard of that website, as if it would make a difference, or was any of your business. You don't believe anything I say, regardless. Dismissing a comment, doesn't make it incorrect, either. The novel you refer to was to illustrate that high loads take time to distort the wooden structure, and once distorted, if you go beyond the elastic limits of the materials used, they do not spring back. The deflection of the joists for the typical L/360 or L/720 that get talked about are based on the total load design (usually 40+10). The deflection will progressively increase if your load exceeds the design spec. Eventually, something breaks, and if there's tile involved, it starts to show up as cracks. This can take years, way beyond the typical 1-year warranty, and likely beyond even a 10-year one. Exceeding requirements is a cost/benefit/risk balancing act...you have to take into account all variables. Extra stuff that ends up exceeding the design limits of the suspended floor count as a big minus, not the plus you imply.

    As an aside, discussing overloaded structures, last fall I was in Salisbury Cathedral in England. Maybe 400-years ago, they added onto the bell tower and added some granite support columns (probably about 6' in diameter, not insignificant - think there may have been six of them, but don't remember exactly). Over those 400-years or so, those granite columns have a significant visible bow to them, as they were not sufficient for the added load. They certainly didn't have load tables or computers to help them figure things out back then, but it certainly LOOKED sufficient...your stuff may LOOK sufficient, but when you add up all the weight you're adding in the room with the stuff the industry says you do not need, it comes as a risk. Extra ply layers aids deflection between the joists, and is an insignificant benefit along the joists. If the structure already meets or exceeds the industry standards for deflection, why add it?
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #19
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    FWIW, 1.25" of drypack is about 15#/sqft. Well within the limits of design if you didn't go crazy with extra layers of whatever above what is required.

    You do not seem to get the point, so I'll try to make it simpler: most wooden framed houses in the USA (and probably Canada) are built with a design load of 40#/sqft dead load and a 10# live load. If the architect is forward looking, or the design calls for especially heavy loads, he may strengthen the structure (like maybe in a bathroom, or the music room where there will be a full-sized grand piano, or a library where there will be lots of full bookshelves, or where you want to put a 1,000g salt water fish tank). Even things you wouldn't expect to bend (like the granite columns in the Cathedral I mentioned) can bend without breaking over time. Had those been the joists holding your pretty bathroom up, things would certainly start to show it. Adding extra stuff, when it is not necessary is NOT good design if it stresses and especially if it exceeds the design load of the structure.

    There is a cost/risk/benefit relationship in all decisions...I do not believe in your evaluation of this...too short-sighted.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  5. #20
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    Maybe this says it better than I, but the end result is the same. http://www.schluter.com/media/articl...ood_Floors.pdf

    Written by a Ph.D from Virginia Tech University and a well-respected consultant.

    Remodeling is fraught with cost/benefit/risk, and one must understand the ramifications of what and how you build things. The ramifications don't often show up overnight.

    It appears I got my live/dead load definitions backwards, which makes the situation even worse!
    Last edited by jadnashua; 10-12-2013 at 10:12 PM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  6. #21
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    You just don't seem to get it...the article was written by a professor emeritus (you don't get that title from being a slacker!) from Virginia Tech, the co-author by an employee (he may not have been at the time) from Schluter. Are you questioning the credentials of a Ph.D that has taught those structural engineers and consulted in the industry for decades?

    The issue is, long-term creep of the building as the result of exceeding the design load can show up as problems, long after the initial install has been completed. The other big point of the article was, the anticipated loads should be considered during the design phase, not something that is all that easy in a remodel if the structure wasn't prepped for the significant increases in load a lavish remodel can present.

    FWIW, nowhere in the article were Schluter products mentioned or promoted.

    Maybe you just have trouble with reading comprehension or checked any of the references. Or, you just can't believe someone else might point out you may not be right and look for any excuse to nit-pick.

    Maybe this simplistic example will help explain why blocking doesn't help DISTRIBUTED loads...

    Equate a joist to a rubber band, it has some ultimate strength, and a range of stretch/bend based on it's size and composition and, when a load is removed, goes back to its original size. Picture you have a bunch of them strung between two essentially rigid support beams. Put a load on one of them near its maximum. It deflects excessively compared to the unloaded ones. Now, take something like say a piece of wood that you've clamped those bands in at their respective separation (FWIW, this is exactly what a properly installed subfloor does! The blocking certainly DOES help prior to its installation by keeping them vertical so they retain their full strength.). Now, that point load is distributed across all of them, and the end result is it doesn't deflect as much. But, we're talking about a distributed load, where ALL of them (or at least a vast majority of them) are overloaded, guess what, they all are now at maximum deflection, regardless of the blocking...and, the added blocking IS part of the suspended load.

    I've said it before...blocking DOES help in point load distribution, but does NOT help in a distributed (over) load situation.

    As to my mix-up, I thought the dead load was 40#, where the live load was 10, but it is the other way around...in reality, regardless, if the dead+live load sum is exceeded, the structure is overloaded and bad things can start to happen. Many of them only show up over time. Radically exceeding the design load can lead to catastrophic failure, but that just doesn't happen, or at least very often. Exceeding the dead load eats into the live load and puts the structure at risk for problems by exceeding the design deflection, or as a worst case, catastrophic failure. Either one can ruin your day.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 10-14-2013 at 09:05 AM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #22
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    John seems to think that blocking magically means the floor can hold more distributed weight than it was designed for (not talking point loads, but they can be an issue even with blocking depending on the level of overload!). It certainly can help share the load, but if the floor is overloaded, it's overloaded, and adding blocking does not increase its ability to handle that overload. Take a typical master bath in many houses, maybe 100sqft (yes, some of John's clients' master baths can be much bigger, but that does NOT mean they were designed for more than the typical design load). Typical building specs call for it to handle 10#/sqft, or 1,000# of dead load in my fictional 100sqft bathroom. The existing subfloor plus the finished ceiling often below could easily be 4#. Now, add cbu and tile, and you're at or maybe above the design limit for dead load of the floor. Throw in the extra sheet of plywood, blocking, etc., and you're over it. This is not counting the weight of any partition walls, the shower, the toilet, the vanity which become part of the dead load. What you've done is eaten into the live load margin for the floor, often quite substantially, and maybe exceeded it. A nice 3cm granite slab for your double-sink vanity is not light!

    You don't have to be a rocket scientist, or actually be all that astute, to understand this.

    Here's speculation on my part, unfounded, but at least logical. When you're adding all of that excess weight above the design load, you're doing it gradually over a few days, and maybe longer. So, by the time you actually get to put the finishing touches of say the grout on the floor, the structure has already bent to accommodate it, and you don't see any effects from being overloaded right away. But, the LONG-TERM effect of being overloaded is that the structure is weakened, and will continue to bend until it reaches equilibrium. If it's too great of a load, it can break. We don't see that final effect very often. But, an overloaded structure will continue to bend as live loads are added and removed over time...overloaded is overloaded.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 10-14-2013 at 01:29 PM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member BobL43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple View Post
    Thanks Doug!

    Jim I have not said in the past that blocking is magic. Your buddy CX of the John Bridge has used the term Magical when plugging Kerdi.

    I have said that we us solid blocking to help stiffen up floor. On four foot centres. It does. If you have ever tried this you would know how it works. If you have ever seen an engineer specify it you would second guess the crap that comes out your mouth.

    In your world you have only recommendations for Schluter. In your world cheaper is better. In your world you are an expert. In my world - your an old man with limited real life experience. Im my world your a pain in my ass. In my world if we hat this chat in person I'd tell you to go ____ yourself.

    You know what's so _____ed up about structure Jim. Is that supporting beams can and are allowed to deflect and bend sometimes 1/2" or more. FACT.

    When walking in a bathroom it's common that only one or two joists share the weight load for the person or persons walking back and forth. When cross blocking is done well - like the way I do it the joists get a little help from there neighbour. You can feel this underfoot. First when your arrive on a job site and again after the fix. BUt after the fix the floor feels stiffer.

    My favourite floor to tile off of is double 5/8 Sheathing over double 2"x10" joists on 12" centres. This is how my deck is built.

    In a reno you need to work with what you got. You need new drain lines. New water lines. Sometimes HVAC changes. The floor looks like a dog's breakfast. In goes the blocking, extra joist where possible. Then subfloor repairs. Then new 5/8" sub floor and then by "MAgic" to quote CX the floor feels stronger and bounces less.

    I could care less your speculation on anything Jim - you have been trained by Schluter - to sell Schluter. I think most of us who read your posts already understand your sales angles.

    In the Late 60's and early 70's, I worked in downtown Manhattan, NY. I watched and took pictures all the time as the Twin Towers went up. A modern engineering achievement it was. I saw all the old buildings from the 1800's get torn down, and the giant hole was excavated. All the underpinnings and foundations poured in and over the Hudson Tubes train line that runs from Lower Manhattan to New Jersey. Then on Sept 11, 2001, my heart was broken to see what the result of a few terrorist bastards did to us. The planes that hit the towers hit way up on top, yet the entire buildings collapsed and pancaked one floor at a time from the top all the way to the ground because of the modern engineering design of ( I forget the exact name) Parachute cabling suspension of flooring. So much for Engineering and safe designs. The main girders mostly survived, but the flooring because of the design did not. I believe John knows enough about flooring strength to make a strong, safe tile bathroom floor in a wooden structure house.

    Just sayin'.
    I am definitely not a pro plumber, but I am a pro crastinator

  9. #24
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    When I remodeled my entire first floor, prior to that remodel, when you walked across the floor, you might hear the glasses clinking against each other in the cabinets. After the entire subfloor was replaced, glued and properly anchored to the joists, you can now jump up and down, and nothing moves. Properly installed subflooring holds the joists in place and causes them to share the loads (the original floor was not glued and they used straight nails). Blocking can help share the loads, but I will say, my full, decent sized refrigerator, a significant point load a ways from the nearest support wall/beam, has not caused the floor to dip where it is located, and there is no blocking in the floor. Blocking changes the resonant frequency of the floor, and that has some advantages. But, it's primary benefit is during construction, holding the joists at the proper spacing and stabilizing them prior to the installation of the subflooring. Properly installed subflooring adds significantly to the strength of a floor verses some sloppily installed. Sharing the load is somewhat irrelevant if it is still overloaded from a distributed load. The subflooring, tile underlayment, tile, etc. all adds up and the typical home is designed for only 10#/sqft dead load. If you build like John advocates, you have NO dead load design margin left, and are eating into the live load limits. THen, adding lots of other, quite heavy items, and you may exceed the live load, shared load or not, thus overloading the whole structure in that area (blocking has its limits).

    My point in all of this, is that there are cost/benefits/risks to anything you do. Exceeding the structure's design load means one of two things: the most common is that the deflection designed in at max load is then exceeded, and in the worst case, continued overload will cause creep and continued deflection as the live loads are added/removed/moved around over time, and bad effects can take awhile to show up. Examples of creep are around us all of the time. LIke a shelf on a bookcase, like the ridge beam of an overloaded building in the snowbelt, like my floor in the examples above. When you reach the elastic limits of the materials involved, you get catastrophic failures. Luckily, the stuff we build out of is fairly resilient, but it has limits, and they set design limits for a reason...and it's not good to exceed them! Building like John advocates will almost always exceed the design limits of the typical building at least in dead load, and often in dead+live. You can stiffen one area, and it may not deflect much, but it still can cause the structure to be overloaded...a typical bathroom install does not reinforce the entire building...it is a patch. And any patch is only as good as the whole thing it is patching. Avoid overloading a building.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #25
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL43 View Post
    The planes that hit the towers hit way up on top, yet the entire buildings collapsed and pancaked one floor at a time from the top all the way to the ground because of the modern engineering design of ( I forget the exact name) Parachute cabling suspension of flooring. So much for Engineering and safe designs. The main girders mostly survived, but the flooring because of the design did not. I believe John knows enough about flooring strength to make a strong, safe tile bathroom floor in a wooden structure house.

    Just sayin'.
    The structure was strong enough...what wasn't foreseen was huge quantities of jet fuel that weakened enough structure that it fell to the floor below. That caused that floor to be overloaded, which just kept getting worse. Until that happened, no building was fire protected enough to withstand that extreme heat - with the systems in place, a fire from on-site materials would have been suppressed long before it could have caused that problem.

    It's just not normal to have or expect large quantities of jet fuel to fuel a fire in a building. We can't build for every contingency...we can avoid overloading a structure using alternate materials or methods. At some point, enough is enough...that extra step comes at a cost.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #26
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,968
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Post(s) removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-16-2014 at 07:24 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  12. #27
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    It's interesting that John crows about sitting in on some training to learn what's new, then he chastises me for taking a training course to learn what's new and reinforce techniques from the people that make the stuff (and should know how to use it!). That happened to be the second time I'd been to one of their training sessions, and I wanted to see what was new, and to reinforce my skills underneath some expert tutors...so, while my actual setting skills may not be up to his standards (as a DIY'er, I can take however long I want to to complete the thing, whereas a pro can't), my knowledge of the product and how it was intended to be used could easily be better for the things I have used and been trained on.

    Real world experience is valuable, never said it wasn't, but not using a product as designed and tested has its risks, too. Work done on a building in say one room, can have impacts on the entire structure...reinforcing one room does not mean you can overload the structure. Knowing when enough is enough doesn't seem to be in John's repertoire. Like a bull in a china store...full-speed ahead, damn the torpedoes.

    As to thinset strength, there's John putting words in my mouth. All cement based products are specified after 28-days of PROPER curing. Part of the question is, what constitutes proper curing for a modified that has to both dry AND cure...the cement will do its thing over time if it has enough moisture in the first place, but the whole assembly will still be plastic and pliable where it has not had a chance to dry out and the modifiers to stabilize. THAT is the issue...a modified cannot dry in a reasonable time when between a waterproof membrane and a nearly impervious tile. Then, throw in adding grout, maybe an epoxy version, and there is literally almost no place for the modified thinset to dry to...so, any drying it does do is off the charts. How long are you willing to wait for that extra strength?

    With a dryset mortar, regardless of where you put it (except maybe underwater!), it will reliably reach its full strength, and after the first day or so, WILL NOT BE PLASTIC LIKE A MODIFIED under the same conditions, i.e., between a waterproof membrane and an impervious tile.

    Glass and ceramic tile have been installed for many centuries...thinsets have only been around since the mid-1950's or so. Those centuries old installations (well, many of them anyway) are still intact, and the mortar/cement they had back then is LOTS weaker that today's thinsets, regardless of the type. Movement accommodation was different, so they worked, and worked well.

    Today's construction techniques are often different, at least in most of NA than what was used long ago. The sand beds they laid their tile on are no longer used or particularly practical for our building techniques, and we have some neat products. Modified thinsets are one way (by no means the only way) to accommodate some movement in a structure. But, we also have things like Ditra that can act like that sand layer of old and accommodate some movement. Why John feels he must have a modified to hold those tile onto Ditra just shows he doesn't understand what it is and how it works.
    Last edited by jadnashua; 10-17-2013 at 02:30 PM.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  13. #28
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,968
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default More from the Big Red Shoe. Man this guy drives me nuts....

    Post(s) removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-16-2014 at 07:24 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

  14. #29
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,399

    Default

    www.johnbridge.com/forums has many active tile setters. In the last quarter, the following forum members were recognized by their peers...not quite old-dried up wanna be's
    Gary Kight- had a kitchen project that was the focus of a case study
    John Cox- the featured 5 Star NTCA contractor
    Carol (La Caroleuse) - one of four that was featured in an article titled "Women in Tile 2013".
    Jon Donmoyer- now an NTCA regional director of a 9 state region.

    They have far more active tile setters than have ever been on this site. Just because they don't agree with you, is no reason to trash them like you continually do...feeling insecure?

    If you believe you must have a modified over Ditra, and that Kerdiboard's waterproofing is the orange layer, you do not understand the products. Believing that blocking can let you overload the structure is likely to come back to bite you eventually. Overbuilding costs extra...it proves you're a great salesman if you can talk people into it. I don't know why you feel special that products will work different in your operations when there are hundreds of thousands of installs that work perfectly fine without all of the 'enhancements' you feel are necessary.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #30
    ACO Shower Drain Sales johnfrwhipple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    2,968
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Post(s) removed by John Whipple
    Last edited by johnfrwhipple; 03-16-2014 at 07:24 AM.


    jfrwhipple@gmail.com - www-no-curb.com - 604 506 6792

    Always get construction advice double checked by your local city hall. Flood Test Every Shower - Every Time.

Similar Threads

  1. Tile patterns with different thickness of tile
    By Searider in forum Remodel Forum & Blog
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-20-2010, 10:45 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-21-2010, 09:29 AM
  3. Shower pan install - over plywood or tile?
    By ddininio in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-12-2008, 01:17 PM
  4. different tile thickness' what to do?
    By chris fox in forum Remodel Forum & Blog
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-03-2007, 09:53 PM
  5. fiberglass thickness
    By lindalawson in forum Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-03-2007, 10:08 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •