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Thread: Did I get a 10" rough-in when I didn't need one?

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member tmarshall's Avatar
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    Default Did I get a 10" rough-in when I didn't need one?

    I ordered a 2nd Toto Drake II this week, but when our plumber got here he said sorry you have a 10" rough-in, we need to get you something else. Basically it came down to take a Toto Eco Drake for 10" which they had in stock, or order an original Aquia for 10" which would be a 4-6 week wait, costs more, and would be a more expensive install ($270 install vs $199, plus $50 for the visit). So because we have guests coming to stay this month I took the Eco Drake, even though I don't like the look of it as much. Cost for the toilet was the same as the Drake II would have been, which was a deal for me apparently since 10" toilets command a premium, even though it is an older model and does not appear to have the Sanagloss that the Drake II I would have bought had.
    Anyway, he did a great install, was totally courteous, but when I went to check out the toilet there is a huge gap between the cistern and the wall which I don't like, considering the cost. I later measured and the gaps are all way over 2", so I thought are we really a 10" or a short 12"?
    Since I hadn't the sense to measure the true rough-in myself earlier, I have to rely on these measurements:
    - The wall to the bolts of the Eco Drake is 11 3/8"
    - The wall to the rear most point of the Eco Drake is 2.5" (!), and the cistern gap is greater than that.

    Can I fit any 12" Toto to eliminate this gap??

    To compare, my other Drake II is 11 5/8" from the wall to the bolts, and it's cistern is butted right up to the wall, so I think our plumber was correct that a Drake II might not have fit, unless there is some play with the bolts, but again I don't have the true rough-in measurement.

    So... I am a little unsatisfied having spent close to $700 on this thing. If a Drake II doesn't fit, is there an Aquia that can use a 11.25" or so rough-in? Or other short 12" Toto recommendations? I am guessing that is my target area.

    Thanks for reading! long post sorry.
    Trevor
    Last edited by tmarshall; 10-04-2013 at 10:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    He could have made it fit, but obviously doesn't know some of the tricks other plumbers use. Terry has discussed this a couple of times in the last week in posts here.

    Basically, consider that the outlet from the toilet is about 2-1/8" in diameter, and you must have at least a 3" pipe. So, you can fudge the location of the toilet a bit with the slop in the bolt holes in the toilet. If that isn't enough, you can opt to install a repair ring over the existing flange with the bolt holes closer to the 12" a normal toilet would use and bolt the toilet to that. It gets a little trickier to seal the repair ring to the old flange, but doable.

    FWIW, most of the Toto toilets that use the UniFit adapter (most of the skirted toilets, but not the Aquia) have a nominal 3/4" behind them to the wall on a perfect 12" rough-in, so most any of those would fit.

    It really isn't all that hard to install a toilet, had you considered doing it yourself?
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Your dude is a moron. If he had actually looked at the original Drake spec sheet he would have seen that it fits on as little as 10-7/8. That's why when you went for the 10" version (i.e. 2" more), you have such a big gap. Get the original Eco-Drake at the bargain-basement street price that they sell for, and you'll be fine with it. You could also consider the new tank (which makes it a cst744EN rather than a cst744e), and that may be a prettier version for you.

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member tmarshall's Avatar
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    Thanks for the quick reply Jim. He was clearly a really bright guy, not old though so maybe you are right about tricks. Also, it was getting on into a Friday afternoon, and we had to move things along as I had to be out to pick up my kid. Never ever good to rush these things.
    Thanks for the details on how to fudge. But do you really think he could have made a Drake II fit on a 11 1/4 rough-in? Is that doable?
    To answer your question, Yes I have considered doing it myself and have an old friend who is a plumber that can assist on the phone, but our local plumbers have always been really awesome, up til now. On this install I figured I payed probably $200 more, over 15 years life of the thing (?), for a job I can sleep well on, mostly because they are a really good company that does great work and stands behind it. Also I am gonna rent this suite out so I can put some of these expenses against my taxes anyway.

  5. #5
    DIY Junior Member tmarshall's Avatar
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    wjcandee I can assure you he wasn't a moron and that's not really a nice thing to call people and also a bit dated. BUT, thanks heaps for the tip on the 10-7/8" rough-in on the normal eco-drake. Most likely I'm gonna quote you when I call on Monday morning.
    Will let you all know how it goes. This is a really great forum.

    Cheers,
    Trev

  6. #6
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Maybe the language was a little aggressive, but I have to tell you that so very many problems that we hear about on this forum can be solved by:

    (a) Reading the spec sheet (and confirming that by measuring; what was it my grandfather said, "Measure twice, cut once". Dated but still valid.); and

    (b) Reading the directions. I know that experienced people assume they know how to do stuff, but different manufacturers do things differently, and lots of agita can be saved by spending 5 minutes seeing how the manufacturer thinks it should all go together.

    We see it over and over and over again.

    PS If I recall, you need 11.5" for the Drake II (CST454CEFG), but don't hold me to it. So he is right it won't fit, although as Jim points out, that 1/8 inch is probably fudgeable. But if you have 11-3/8", the 12" rough-in original Drake (eco-Drake) on (CST744E) will fit with no difficulty at all. In fact, it will still have a good bit of a gap. All he needs is to swap out the bowl for a regular C744E bowl. The tank you have is the same tank as on the 12" version. (They all use the ST743E tank.)
    Last edited by wjcandee; 10-05-2013 at 11:27 PM.

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