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Thread: Moderate Floor Damage - Needs Repair?

  1. #1

    Default Moderate Floor Damage - Needs Repair?

    Today I removed the old toilet while prepping the bathroom floor for tiling. This is what I found:

    Name:  Toilet Drain Above.jpg
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    Name:  Toilet Drain Below.jpg
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    So the questions are:

    1. Do I need to cut out a section of the floor and replace the flange or can I just use some 3/4" blocking underneath to reinforce the floor around the drain? The rest of the floor is bone dry and looks pretty good
    2. I've ordered the Set-Rite 1/2" - 5/8" flange extender to deal with the change in height estimated when the new tile is installed. Does anyone have any experience with this. Is this the best choice for dealing with this problem?



    Thanks in advance for any advice/comments

  2. #2
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    If you take something like an ice pick, is the wood delaminated and soft? If it is, then you need to cut it out and replace. If it is not delaminated and is just wet, you should be able to leave it.

    Since you apparently have easy access from below, I'd just cut the old flange out of there and install a new one at the proper place - on top of the finished floor. It appears that that is a 4" pipe. With that, you can use an internal mount flange or one that slides over the existing pipe and does not contain a hub. If you use an internal mount one, you can tile right up to the pipe. If you use an external mount one without a hub, you can leave the pipe long and when ready, glue the new one on, sliding it down to the tiled surface, then cutting off the excess pipe sticking out.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  3. #3
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    If the wood is punky or spongy I would cut it out. You might also consider the potential for odor.
    Like Jim said, with that good access to the piping, I would cut it out and set a new flange when the tile is done.

  4. #4

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    I was afraid that would be the answer. I really didn't want to have to do that but I know you're right. It's not too big of a deal since the rotted part is within the 12" OC joists and I can just cut out the old and put in the new.

    But I'm a little unclear about the flange options you suggest. The existing flange appears to fit under a ridge in the drain collar like this one.

    Name:  1024px-Closet_flange.jpg
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    If I use this type and cut the drain I think I'd need to add a coupling and short piece of pipe in order for the drain to reach the new flange. Are you suggesting a different type of collar/flange adapter that might be longer? Not sure I understand. Can you direct me to links or pics that illustrate your solution?

    Thanks!

  5. #5

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    This is a 3" ID PVC pipe. I measured (twice). I can get a replacement flange at the Despot that will fit over the outside but I think I'm still going to have to cut the pipe and extend it using a coupler. Or would I be better off just cutting the SS flange off and using a clamshell repair kit and getting some kind of extender when the tiling is done?

    I'm getting ready to cut out the old plywoood out making sure that I get all of the dry rot. It looks like it ends right over the joist and there's even less down below so I think it will be OK.

  6. #6
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    I would cut out a section of pipe along with the flange and replace it using a coupler after the floor is finished.

    When fixing the floor, I would cut right up to the joists and then install blocking to support the new section of plywood. If you are planning to tile, the entire floor needs to be rock solid or the tile/grout will fail.

  7. #7
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Ideally, any patch in subflooring would span two joist bays, giving it support at each end and the middle...this keeps it from only relying on the edges to hold it up. If you can provide extra blocking to make that contact surface larger, just covering one bay should be sufficient. But, if it's only staining, and the wood is actually solid and hasn't swelled up or delaminated or rotted, you do not need to replace it.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    Ideally, any patch in subflooring would span two joist bays, giving it support at each end and the middle...this keeps it from only relying on the edges to hold it up. If you can provide extra blocking to make that contact surface larger, just covering one bay should be sufficient.
    There was some delamination and it was a little spongy in the area closest to the flange. I did exactly as you suggest. The joists on either side were close. Less than 6" on the side closest to the wall and almost a double joist with less than 2" space between them on the other side. So I extended it into the adjacent bay and added blocking all around. This is what it looks like now.

    Name:  Toilet Drain Above After.jpg
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    Name:  Toilet Drain Below-After.jpg
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    The drain is not glued in. It is just set in place until the floor is tiled. But now I have to use leveling because the new plywood sticks up about 1/32" above the old plywood. The floor is flat and nearly level but i was thinking about using leveling before anyway just to provide a nice clean and smooth surface for the Ditra.

    Thanks for the feedback. I'll be pouring the LevelQuick and setting the Ditra today.

  9. #9
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    I hope you were paying attention to the advice about the flange resting on top of the finished floor. You picture shows it screwed to the sub floor. This will recess the flange well below the top of the finished floor and require an extra wax ring. This doable, but is not the preferred method. Now is the time to do it right.

  10. #10

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    It's not screwed to the subfloor. It's actually resting above the subfloor by about 1 1/4". It's just the dead on shot that makes it look like it's flush. As noted earlier it is not glued in but is just there as a place holder to validate the fit until the tile is laid. It won't be glued in until after the tile is set.

  11. #11

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    The 1 1/4" space is almost perfect because it is not pressed completely into the drain yet.

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