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Thread: Styrofoam in tank

  1. #1
    DIY Senior Member guy48065's Avatar
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    Default Styrofoam in tank

    I have a standard flush Toto toilet that has a foam liner in the tank. This is a new thing to me--is it to reduce water capacity or to prevent sweating? I recently replaced the original fill valve with a Fluidmaster and it was a VERY close fit between the float & foam.
    Last edited by Terry; 09-27-2013 at 07:42 AM.

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    It is an anti sweating feature.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    I recently replaced the original fill valve with a Fluidmaster
    A better valve would have been the Korky MaxPerformance. It fills the bowl without overfilling it.
    The Fluidmaster 400A will waste a lot of water every time you flush.

    What you have is a ST743SD insulated tank. It's about sweating.

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    DIY Senior Member guy48065's Avatar
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    OK I looked up the Korky and it looks like that the toilet came with. Definitely would have chosen it if it had been available at the hardwares I checked. Next time...
    Can you expand on the waste comment? To me any water that goes into flushing the toilet serves a useful purpose ;-)
    Romeo and Atlanta, MI

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    They have the Korky 528MP valve that Terry recommends at every Lowe's and most Ace Hardware's. They don't have this model at HD, and the Korky valve that they do have at HD doesn't refill the bowl enough.

    Your "funny" comment about water and flushing is really, really wrong in this case. The waste Terry is talking about is the refill water that just runs out of the bowl and serves no purpose whatsoever. Here's why: every toilet bowl has a natural water level. Any water (or urine or whatever) that you deposit in the bowl displaces other water and causes the balance to run down the drain. When the flush cycle has completed and the toilet bowl is full and has settled to its natural level, any liquid you dribble in will cause a corresponding amount to dribble right out. You can see on the diagram below where the water in the bowl levels out at the "weir" of the trapway. Anything that you add to the bowl will cause that water to flow over the weir, down the trapway, and out the bottom of the toilet. (When you flush, you put a lot of water in there are once, so the entire trapway fills like a straw and a siphon is created that sucks the entirety of what's in the bowl out, then the siphon breaks with a gurgle when the bowl is empty, then it starts refilling.)



    SO...water saving toilets have the refill percentage (the portion of the water coming into the tank that is diverted through the rubber refill hose and down the overflow riser to refill the bowl following the evacuation portion of the flush) carefully-calibrated to have the bowl fill just to its natural level exactly at the time the tank fills and shuts off. That way, no water just runs down the drain for no reason while the tank continues to fill. The Korky 528MP valve lets you set it so that it duplicates the manufacturer's calibration of that refill percentage. The 400A doesn't. So, a perhaps-not-insignificant amount of water is going to continue to run into the bowl after it refills to its natural level, then dribble over the weir of the trapway, and be wasted down the drain, accomplishing nothing.

    By the way, the spec sheet, parts list, instructions, etc., for your toilet are all available on the Toto web site. www.totousa.com Look up either CST744SD (elongated bowl) or CST743SD (round bowl) for the complete toilet. They both use the same tank, which, as Terry said, is the ST743SD insulated tank.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 09-27-2013 at 10:47 AM.

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    DIY Senior Member guy48065's Avatar
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    I'm sorry if my "humor" was "wasted" on you.

    I understand what you're saying but it's a matter of degree, isn't it? Anyone who waters their lawn (I don't) will waste more water in one day than my toilet will all year. Yeah--I'm not very green, not PC, don't believe in global warming. Just an old country curmudgeon.

    My ACE didn't have Korky.
    Romeo and Atlanta, MI

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guy48065 View Post
    My ACE didn't have Korky.
    Some ACEs suck, I guess. Like the one in my town on Long Island. Horrible place. But they have Korky. I think your Ace should be able to order it if you decide to get one in the future. But you can order it from Lowe's online a lot quicker, I would think, if you don't have a Lowe's near you.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    To me any water that goes into flushing the toilet serves a useful purpose ;-)
    I've seen Fluidmaster fill valve empty 2 gallons down the drain "after" the flush has taken place. Just a slow trickle of water down the drain that adds to the water bill, but does nothing for the flush.

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    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    I use a pinch clamp on my Fluid Master bowl filling tube. The main reason is that I have a FluidMaster "Flush 'n' Sparkle" in series that dispensed a surfactant down the overflow tube after each flush. I don't want to lose too much of my cleaner from the cartridge.

    Last edited by Terry; 09-27-2013 at 05:25 PM.

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    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The pinch tube works

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    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The goal for any toilet refill valve is to refill the tank at exactly the same time that the bowl is full. This is how the factory (if they want to claim any sort of eco status) sets up the thing on the line when produced. Aftermarket refill valves, unless they have an adjustment, can often end up overfilling (or underfilling, which affects performance) the bowl. Overfilling the bowl has no performance advantage.
    Jim DeBruycker
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    DIY Senior Member guy48065's Avatar
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    I hate to revive this thread but I was up at the cottage this weekend and took the tank lid off to watch the Fluidmaster valve work. I had the float adjusted so the valve cut off when the water level was right at the old fill line--and about 1/2" below the overflow tube. When the valve is filling the tank it shuts off completely at this fill line and the water from the little hose cuts off at the same time. The water level in the bowl is a little short of the old stain so I assume it's under the weir.

    This certainly looks like it's working as it should. How is it wasteful?
    Romeo and Atlanta, MI

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    It may be that your flavor of 400A has a refill ratio that is designed for older toilets. Back then, they usually set the thing at 20%, which would overfill the bowl. Today's Totos require between 35-40% refill in most cases. That would explain why you're below the old stain and thus the weir. The toilet wants to start with the bowl full, so if you see any performance issues, then you want to raise the refill ratio a bit until the bowl is full right when the water cuts off in the tank.

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    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    I see that Flowmaster now offers a replacement fill tube with its own clamp to vary the flow.
    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fluidmast...-215/202510400

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    DIY Senior Member guy48065's Avatar
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    Looks like that could be be useful with other brands as well. Now that I know of the overfill issue I've noticed the toilets where I work continue to shoot water down the overflow for nearly 20 seconds after the level in the bowl has stopped rising.
    Romeo and Atlanta, MI

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