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Thread: Another "I need advise about a water softener" thread

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member tat trader's Avatar
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    Default Another "I need advise about a water softener" thread

    Hello,

    I am in need of water softener for a new house and I need some help from the learned members of this forum.

    Here are my specifics:
    Hardness: 21 gpg
    Cl: < 1ppm
    Fe: 0ppm (~2.26 ppB)
    Manganese: 0ppm
    pH: ~7.02
    3/4" copper main water line
    4.5 bathrooms
    daily water use~375 gallons/day

    I have had two different independent water specialists come look and give me quotes. Both are pretty close in terms of price (the first is a few bucks cheaper), but they have specified different options, resins, and control valves. I am looking for some guidance as to which of these options I should choose and which I should not.

    The first quote was:
    80,000 grain capacity
    Clack WS-1 valve
    2.5 cu ft. of Nelson brand 10% crosslink resin
    13x54" tank with gravel underbedding
    18"x33" salt tank with safety float
    Options:
    Res-up Feeder = $30

    The second quote was:
    80,000 grain capacity
    Fleck 7000sxt control valve
    2.5 cu ft. Imported (China) 8% crosslink resin
    13"x54" tank with gravel underbedding
    18'x40" salt tank with safety float
    Options:
    8% Purolite C100E resin= $100
    Purolite SST160 (don't know % crosslink) = $225
    Vortech tank (gravel underbed deleted) = $110
    Res-Up feeder = $45

    Do either of these seem like a better deal than the other?
    Are any of the options worthwhile?
    Should I be using a resin cleaner on a regular basis (ie do I need a res-up cleaner)?
    What are the pros/cons of each?
    Are there other options I should be considering?

    Many thanks,
    Michael
    Last edited by tat trader; 09-26-2013 at 11:30 AM. Reason: fix type on pH

  2. #2
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Default

    Either unit will be just fine. It is more of a Ford vs. Chevy debate.

    The c100E resin is fine, Res-up feeder would not hurt, nor is it really needed for that low of iron. 50/50 on that. I would simply add some resin cleaner to the brine tank every 6 months.
    18x40 is nice, you will fill it less often, but it is also taller. If you have difficulty lifting 50 pound bags, the shorter tank may be desirable. I prefer the larger tank. Fill it every 6 months and ignore.

    Vortech tank, neat idea but not worth the extra $

  3. #3
    DIY Senior Member mialynette2003's Avatar
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    Default

    I agree with Dittohead. Either system will work fine. Only thing I would say is that Nelsen does not make resin. They simply have it made and put their name on it so it may come from China as well. Who knows.

  4. #4
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Default

    Let's make it a quorum. All in favor say aye,
    Motion carried
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  5. #5
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Default

    I think the first guy is a better choice and if you want to fix your valve yourself sometime in the future the Clack is easier to repair. He seems more interested in doing a good job for you while the other guy seems to be more interested in making more money. The Clack is usually the more expensive valve yet the Fleck guy is more expensive....

    Your trace of iron (Fe: 0ppm (~2.26 ppB)) is not near enough for any type of resin cleaner. A gravel underbed is a much better choice than the Vortex tank. I can't see the need for upgraded resin and I sold tons of resin from Nelsen with no problems.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  6. #6
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    LOL, no surprise here.

    Clack is easier to rebuid... which is an every 1-2 decade occurance. Clack parts are muchmore difficult to find online so... you decide.

    Honestly, either one is excellent, you are chosing between the two best possible valves. If you want to see how easy both valves are to rebuild, check out my link below. Remeber, this rebuild is usually done in year 15-20 of the systems life, so you will save 3 minutes rebuilding the Clack valve 15 years from now. Both valves are basically bulletproof.

    I did just notice that you said you have a 3/4" copper main line and 4.5 bathrooms... something is wrong there. 3/4" copper is typically rated for 11 GPM for velocity reasons (8 feet per second). A house with 4.5 baths would greatly exceed that.

  7. #7
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    You should do a video of you repairing a Clack so we can compare it to the 7000 video instead of having to taking your word.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member tat trader's Avatar
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    Default Follow-up

    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    LOL, no surprise here.

    Clack is easier to rebuid... which is an every 1-2 decade occurance. Clack parts are muchmore difficult to find online so... you decide.

    Honestly, either one is excellent, you are chosing between the two best possible valves. If you want to see how easy both valves are to rebuild, check out my link below. Remeber, this rebuild is usually done in year 15-20 of the systems life, so you will save 3 minutes rebuilding the Clack valve 15 years from now. Both valves are basically bulletproof.

    I did just notice that you said you have a 3/4" copper main line and 4.5 bathrooms... something is wrong there. 3/4" copper is typically rated for 11 GPM for velocity reasons (8 feet per second). A house with 4.5 baths would greatly exceed that.
    Actually, it is 3/4" in a very large house with 4.5 bathrooms, 2 jacuzzi tubs, 4 showers, a bar, 2 kitchen sinks, 2 dishwashers, and two large 75 gallon water heaters. It is emblematic of some of the dumb short cuts the builder took with the house.

    Fortunately, there are only four of us and we never shower at the same time. At least the sprinklers are pond fed and not on the water supply.

    I am leaning toward the Fleck system just because of the interactions/responses I have gotten from both guys in the past day. I am just getting a better feeling from this guy -- can't exactly put my finger on why, but he just puts me more at ease.

    Michael
    Last edited by tat trader; 09-27-2013 at 06:35 PM. Reason: Typo

  9. #9
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    You will do fine with the 7000. If you check the link, you can see my youtube channel which also has a Clack rebuild tutorial. Both valves are very easy and simple to rebuild, but more importantly, both valves are built so they wont need to be rebuilt for 10-20 years.
    I would guess this plumbing is not to code. A quick calc would show it should have been 1-1/4" copper, or 1" Pex.

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member tat trader's Avatar
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    I ended up having the Fleck 7000 unit installed w/2.5 cu ft of resin. I requested the Purolite C100E resin, but when the installer showed up, he had brought the SST-60 so I ended up getting that resin for the same price as the C100E.

    He did program the unit before he left, however, I know many here have said installer settings are not always the most efficient in terms of salt/water usage. So, I thought I would see if anyone would recommend different settings:

    DF: GAL
    VT: St2b
    CT: Fd
    C: 80
    H: 21
    RS: SF
    SF: 15
    DO: 12
    RT: 2:00AM
    BW: 10
    BD: 60
    BD: 60
    RR: 10
    BF: 14
    FM: t1.2 - 1.5'' Turbine Meter

    Thanks,
    Michael

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