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Thread: Seeking water softener advice in Phoenix

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member carso's Avatar
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    Default Seeking water softener advice in Phoenix

    I am remodeling home in Phoenix AZ and seek advice on water softener selection. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Approx 3000 sq ft house
    2. Two full time people in house
    3. Extended visitors up to one month are common during each year
    4. All plumbing on pex manifold with 3/4 inch pex hot and 1 inch pex cold directly to largest shower
    5. Tankless water heater that has 9.6 gpm hot water capacity
    6. Two showers (one with multiple heads and body sprays up to 19 gpm capacity and also has a steambath unit in that bathroom) (second shower with multiple heads and body sprays up to 13 gpm capacity).
    7. Airtub w/ 60 gallon capacity and 18 gpm filler
    8. On City of Phoenix water with hardness ranging from 10-17, iron ranging from .6-10, PH ranging from 7.3-8.1, Nickel ranging from none-3, TDS ranging from 286-714, sodium ranging from 50-148, and chlorine ranging from .1-1.9 and averaging .85 annually.
    9. Remodeled with new 1.25 water service coming into the house and loop for water softener.
    10. Would Vortex resin tank be advisable given our factors?
    11. Is Crosslink 10% resin advisable given high City water chlorine levels?
    12. Is 2.5 cu ft system the right size? 6 lb. salt dose? Clack WS1 valve? Is 1.25 inch valve better than 1 inch valve for my situation?
    13. SFR peak of 18+gpm vs. majority of time using much less water with 2 people
    14. Suggested compromises? 2.5 seems too big for two full time people but large sfr peak requires higher resin capacity


    Thanks a bunch for any suggestions that you could offer including any good water treatment company in Phoenix.

    Thanks.

    Chuck

  2. #2
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    PM sent for an old friend of mine in Phoenix.

  3. #3
    DIY Junior Member carso's Avatar
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    Sent you a PM in response to your PM



    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    PM sent for an old friend of mine in Phoenix.

  4. #4

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    I noticed you have been asking for basically the same advice since Jan 2012. No luck Yet?
    It was an INSIDE JOB!!!!

  5. #5
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carso View Post
    Sent you a PM in response to your PM
    Pm sent in response to your response to a pm.

    Thanks!

  6. #6
    DIY Junior Member carso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by water solutions View Post
    I noticed you have been asking for basically the same advice since Jan 2012. No luck Yet?

    Nope. I have not really received any advice here and am still seeking any advice and expertise that anyone here could offer. I am at the point where I need to choose and purchase water treatment equipment within the next couple of weeks.

    Chuck

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member carso's Avatar
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    No suggestions on my water softener questions?

  8. #8
    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    Sent you a pm

  9. #9
    DIY Senior Member Reach4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carso View Post
    iron ranging from .6-10
    I don't know much about that, but I think you really should narrow that iron range down before selecting a system.

  10. #10
    DIY Senior Member lifespeed's Avatar
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    Yes, you need to find out if you have iron in your water and how much. Given that you are on a municipal supply, there should not be any. But if you have iron you need to know how much and your posted range does not sound realistic. Once you answer that correct recommendations are easier.

    If you have no iron, do have chlorine you can either use the 10% resin or (ideally) remove the chlorine with a backwashing carbon tank first and use 8% resin. You should use the large diameter Fleck 7000 valve to maintain flow with your 1.25" service. The 2.5 cu ft system is somewhat large, but will provide the Serviced Flow Rate to fill that big tub. You will go quite awhile between regenerations but that is the tradeoff to properly feed the big tub at 18 GPM. This is OK, provided your incoming water is pretty clean. The carbon filter will help somewhat with this.
    Lifespeed

  11. #11
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    He said...
    6. Two showers (one with multiple heads and body sprays up to 19 gpm capacity and also has a steambath unit in that bathroom) (second shower with multiple heads and body sprays up to 13 gpm capacity).

    He needs more than 18 gpm unless no other water is used while the tub is filling but what about the 19 gpm shower and do we want him to only run that shower and no other water until s/he is finished showering. What if the two showers are going at the same time? That's another 13 gpm right?

    So IMO a 2.5 is not large enough but.....

    What brand and type of resin are you using that has an SFR of more than 5 gpm per cu ft?

    Also, it sounds as if you don't understand that the number of gallons used between regenerations is adjustable. Otherwise why would you say that he'd "go quite awhile between regenerations"? What salt efficiency/K of capacity are you using to base that on?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member carso's Avatar
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    Thank you for your responses. I merely read the statistics from the City of Phoenix report. I wil check the report again and the City website to make sure that I accurately reported the iron range(which does seem broad). Gary is right to question whether if tub and master shower, or master shower and 2nd shower were used at same time there would obviously not be enough soft water capacity (or hot water capacity for that matter). However the master shower does not have to always be used at full capacity (ie can be used without turning on body sprays etc) if the other shower or tub is being used at the time.

    I am planning for and aiming to get softener capacity to allow the master shower to be fully utilized at one time or the tub filler to be fully utilized. With that goal in mind I am wondering if my plan is sound (relatively large softener for two people with low salt dose) or if in your experience there are other things to consider such as vortex tank, higher % cross link resin, different salt dose etc to compromise between large SFR for master shower and the relativley low soft water usage a two person household will use the rest of the time. I really appreciate your time and advice.

    Chuck

  13. #13
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Regular tank, regular resin, gravel underbed and correctly sized with high salt efficiency setting.

    BTW, if you are running 19 gpm or more, that is not "relatively low soft water use"...
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  14. #14
    DIY Junior Member carso's Avatar
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    Default Seeking water softener advice in Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser View Post
    Regular tank, regular resin, gravel underbed and correctly sized with high salt efficiency setting.

    BTW, if you are running 19 gpm or more, that is not "relatively low soft water use"...

    Thanks for your response and advice. I was referring to relatively low soft water use other than the tub and master shower. The master shower will not be used at full capacity every shower, but will occasionally be turned on to the max capacity as a luxury. Tub will be occasional also. The 10% cross resin media was more aimed at our high chlorine level in the Phoenix city water. I have included a link to the most recent Phoenix water report(2012) since the report is too big for attachment here. Please let me know if the various levels in our Phoenix water report cause any concerns.


    http://phoenix.gov/webcms/groups/int...wsdwqr2012.pdf


    If I understand correctly I should be aiming for a system with just enough resin to meet my anticiopate4d peak soft water usage (which in my case wil be the master shower at ful capacity with everything on since I can control whether master shower needs to be used at full capacity if other soft watrer fixtures need to be used at same time. The the salt dose can be adjusted to a relatively low rate to compensate for the actual soft water use daily amount. Thanks


    Chuck

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    In the Trades Akpsdvan's Avatar
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    Just go with the hardness high end 17grains and forget about the iron of .01ppm..............

    What iron?

    Find a unit that has a peak flow rate of 17gpm and things should work.

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