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Thread: Purchased Toto Drake II but discovered I only have 10" rough in

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member LeftSeat's Avatar
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    Default Purchased Toto Drake II but discovered I only have 10" rough in

    After researching this site, I bought two new Toto Drake II's to replace poorly performing units. After removing the first of the old toilets, I discovered the rough-in measures 10 1/2" from the wall and the Drake II will not fit. I thought the Drake II could be installed with 10" to 12" but it appears I was wrong. I emailed Toto over the weekend and I got a very prompt reply this morning, suggesting I use the CT474CEFG bowl with a 10" rough in, and retain the Drake II tank as it can be used with the new bowl.

    It looks like I have two options:

    1. Exchange the Drake II for the CT474CEFG. If I go this route, will this bowl perform (flush) as well as the Drake II?
    2. Have the flange moved out to 12", but this may not be possible.


    The old installation used an offset flange, angling back and to the left. The basement below the bathroom is unfinished so I inspected the drain pipe in the basement and found it is marked 3". Most importantly, I discovered what appears to be the reason for the 10 1/2" offset flange location. Under the floor where a standard 12" flange would be installed, there is a double run of engineered I-beam style floor joists, about 5" wide in total. The original installer actually cut through the horizontal edge of the inside joist in order to install the drain pipe to the flange. Also, the flange is about 3/8" below the level of the tile floor. When the bathroom was tiled, they just tiled around the old flange. I noticed that when I removed the old toilet the wax ring didn't appear to have been compressed much, if at all. However, no leaks were evident.

    What is my best course of action? Are there other options?

    The other toilet location has a standard 12" rough-in so I don't anticipate any problems there. However, since that bathroom floor was also tiled the flange is likely low 3/8" there as well.

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by LeftSeat; 09-09-2013 at 07:11 AM.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Okay, let's take it one at a time.

    The correct bowl number is C474CEFG, not "CT"474. ST is the tank. C is the bowl. Put them together and you get CST (or a two-piece toilet). That said, some suppliers DO list the bowl as "CT". Go figure. It's wrong, but they do it.

    What Toto is recommending is that you install a skirted Vespin II bowl rather than a Drake II bowl. The Vespin II is installed using Toto's Unifit Adapter. The bowl comes with a 12" adapter. You would buy the C474CEFG bowl and the 10" Unifit Adapter, which is model number TSU01W.10 and which is sold separately. Here are the installation instructions with the Unifit.http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/Pro..._TOILET_IM.pdf

    The Drake II and the Vespin II use the very same tank; in fact if you look on the box it will say "Drake II/Vespin II Tank" on it -- ST454E. So all you would have to do is buy the bowl and adapter and you'd be in business.

    Yes, the Vespin II flushes about the same as the Drake II. It's intended to be a skirted version of the Drake II. We have a Carlyle II, which is a skirted Ultramax II, and love it. Doubtless the $350-ish you spend on the new bowl will be less than a plumber would want to move the flange. I think. If you can exchange the Drake II bowl for the Vespin II bowl for a small charge, that's even better, and the best way to go, no question about it.

    As far as the level of the flange, when you go to install the new toilets, no big deal. Just use two wax rings instead of one. You stack them, either two plain wax rings, or one with a funnel in it on top of one without a funnel, but never two with a funnel. Or use an extra-thick #10 wax ring.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 09-09-2013 at 09:02 AM.

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    DIY Junior Member LeftSeat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    Okay, let's take it one at a time.

    The correct bowl number is C474CEFG, not "CT"474. ST is the tank. C is the bowl. Put them together and you get CST (or a two-piece toilet). That said, some suppliers DO list the bowl as "CT". Go figure. It's wrong, but they do it.
    This is what the CS rep from Toto sent me: The Drake II is a 12" rough in only. The best way to go is to order the CT474CEFG bowl with 10" rough in. You will still be able to use the tank.

    Anyway, I will have to check to see if they will allow me to return just the Drake II bowl in exchange for the Vespin II bowl. Otherwise, I am stuck with a Drake II bowl I can't use.
    Last edited by Terry; 09-19-2013 at 05:09 PM.

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    When they say "with a ten inch rough in", they call the Unifit Adapter a "rough-in", so he means the "10-inch Unifit". The company from whom you bought the Drake II bowl does indeed sell the Vespin II bowl, and they list it as "CT"474CEFG. Search on CT474 and you will find it. Then get yourself (from wherever) the TSU01W.10 10-inch Unifit rough-in that goes with this toilet bowl. Maybe the seller will let you return the whole thing in return for the whole Vespin II, if they won't just do the bowl. Dumb, but might make more sense to them.

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    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    You may face a problem returning this to an on line seller. Maybe not, but there are advantages to dealing with a local business. You will end up with an excellent toilet both for the functionally standpoint and from the appearance. If you end up having to keep the original bowl, you can likely sell it locally. Might want to get a tank to go with it to make it more appealing. On the plus side, a 12" rough in is the industry standard size, so you won't have to find someone looking for a odd size. May be a bit of a hassle, but you should come out OK in the long run.

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    DIY Junior Member LeftSeat's Avatar
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    Ordered a Vespin II from a local supply house. I can use the Drake II in another bathroom.

    Doing a little more research on this site I see I may have another problem as the water supply is floor mounted and only 4 1/2" left of center of the flange. Since 7" appears to be the minimum for the Vespin II, I assume I am going to have to have the water supply moved over?

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    According to the spec sheet, the width of the base itself is 11-13/16", so from the centerline, the edge of the base is about 6" off the centerline. The toilet is going to mount so that the base is a bit more than 3/4" off the wall, so it all depends upon where that supply comes up from the floor -- i.e. distance from wall AND distance left of centerline.

    However, 4.5" is not going to do it unless it's right against the wall, and even then it may be tight. When it's coming out of the wall, you can use the Dahl Skirted Toilet installation kit on the existing wall protrusion -- it puts a 90-degree turn on the protrusion and runs it to the left so it doesn't impede the skirt. However, when it's coming out of the floor, yeah, you're going to need to move it, I think. If it is still tight, remember that the angle stop on the end of the pipe doesn't need to have a big handle. Those Dahl stops are quarter-turn ball valves and just use a little knob that doesn't extend much past the width of the hardware, so if the stop fits, the knob will turn without banging into the porcelain.
    Last edited by wjcandee; 09-11-2013 at 01:26 PM.

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    DIY Junior Member bartman99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    According to the spec sheet, the width of the base itself is 11-13/16", so from the centerline, the edge of the base is about 6" off the centerline. The toilet is going to mount so that the base is a bit more than 3/4" off the wall, so it all depends upon where that supply comes up from the floor -- i.e. distance from wall AND distance left of centerline.

    However, 4.5" is not going to do it unless it's right against the wall, and even then it may be tight. When it's coming out of the wall, you can use the Dahl Skirted Toilet installation kit on the existing wall protrusion -- it puts a 90-degree turn on the protrusion and runs it to the left so it doesn't impede the skirt. However, when it's coming out of the floor, yeah, you're going to need to move it, I think. If it is still tight, remember that the angle stop on the end of the pipe doesn't need to have a big handle. Those Dahl stops are quarter-turn ball valves and just use a little knob that doesn't extend much past the width of the hardware, so if the stop fits, the knob will turn without banging into the porcelain.
    Anyone know where I can get the Dahl kit? Our local plumbing stores don't even know what I am talking about.

    BM99

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    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartman99 View Post
    Anyone know where I can get the Dahl kit? Our local plumbing stores don't even know what I am talking about.

    BM99
    The Dahl kit comes in various flavors -- either straight or angle (i.e. once there is a 90, the outlet is either straight ahead (-S) or facing up 90 degrees (-A)) AND a different one for the type of pipe coming out of the wall (compression, solder, pex, etc.).

    Here's the link to the Dahl web site where they identify the different ones: http://www.dahlvalve.com/products/mi...oilet-kits.php

    You can search on the model number of one you want (i.e. 5/8 OD comp). There are a number of online sources.

    The model line has been relaunched last year (used to be called Toto toilet installation kit, now just Skirted Toilet installation kit), and I think they may have eliminated the "straight" ones as part of the "relaunch" because the web site only lists the angle ones.

    A couple of online sources if your local plumbing supply can't figure out what you need when you give them the model number (rolleyes).

    http://www.hatcreekoutfit.com/xcart/...&cat=0&page=11

    A lot of folks don't carry the whole model line, so I would do your research once you know which one you want and be sure you don't get ripped off.

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    DIY Senior Member JerryR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartman99 View Post
    Anyone know where I can get the Dahl kit? Our local plumbing stores don't even know what I am talking about.

    BM99

    I've bought dahl products from hatcreekoutfit.com

    They list the skirted valve in two favors, both 5/8 x 3/8 straight and angled.
    33-2386-A (angled) and 33-2386-S (straight)

    JR
    JR

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