(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Can you mess up a Unifit install?

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Mollie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2

    Default Can you mess up a Unifit install?

    We live in a Dutch colonial built in 1928. When we moved in, there was an old toilet in the *one and only bathroom* that sat flush with the wall. We bought a Toto Drake and replaced the toilet. It stuck out about 4 inches from the wall - and was an elongated bowl - which made a big difference in our small bath. We recently did a remodel on the bathroom. Ripped it out, re-tiled, all new features, tub, toilet, sink. Some piping was updated to copper, but the placement of the toilet plumbing was not re-done. I purchased a Toto Guinevere for the express purpose of making the toilet flush against the wall again - or as close as possible. Our contractor DID use the 14 in rough in Unifit piece. The toilet is *still* 3.5 inches out from the wall. He has never installed a Unifit before but thinks he did it right.

    I just can't believe our 14in Unifit is sticking out at almost the exact same distance as the previous 12 in rough in Drake? Is it an "idiot proof" install for the Unifit or could my contractor have not done it correctly?

    Frustrated and trying to understand before we insist he take it out and do it over again.

    Appreciate any insight. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bothell, Washington
    Posts
    14,202
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    It appears he used the standard 12" unifit that came with the Guinervere.
    I would expect the Guinevere to be about 1/4" to 1/2" closer to the wall than the Drake. If you remove the two nuts that hold the bowl down, and lift the bowl out, you will see a standard 12" rough, not the 14"



    It should look like the one on the right.
    Last edited by Terry; 07-30-2013 at 02:29 PM.

  3. #3
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    21,405

    Default

    FWIW, you should first measure what your REAL rough-in is. To do that, you'd need to first lift the toilet, then measure from the wall to the holes in the large, round part of the Unifit adapter. All of the Totos that use the Unifit adapter, come with the 12" one in the box. You have to buy the 14" one as a separate purchase (and throw the 12" one away, unfortunately). If your rough-in is a true 14" (it could be anything!), with the right adapter installed, the toilet would have about 3/4" behind it to the wall. Any deviation from 14" will either add or subtract from that rear clearance. It would have been better to have changed the rough-in to 12" (if possible) when you remodeled...maybe next time.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  4. #4
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Posts
    25,655

    Default

    Some people can "screw up" an iron ball, but we do not know what he was working with.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  5. #5
    Plumber Sean Beck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    48

    Default

    IF your contractor DID use the 14" rough-in unifit adaptor and the toilet is still 3.5" away from the wall, then you will want to use the regular 12" unifit adaptor that comes with the toilet. This should make the gap just 1.5".

  6. #6
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Bothell, Washington
    Posts
    14,202
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    If the wall was not moved, or the rough-in moved, then he used the 12" Unifit that came with the toilet.
    We have installed hundreds of these. He used the 12" rough, and not the 14"

    It's not an adjustable fitting. They come in three different sizes. We sell the 14" Unifit for $59.99
    I guess your contractor saved by not buying one.

    Last edited by Terry; 07-30-2013 at 05:36 PM.

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Beck View Post
    IF your contractor DID use the 14" rough-in unifit adaptor and the toilet is still 3.5" away from the wall, then you will want to use the regular 12" unifit adaptor that comes with the toilet. This should make the gap just 1.5".
    I know it's a little counterintuitive, but in fact you don't quite have it right. The 14" Unifit presumes that the rough-in is 14" from the wall, so it extends 2" further back towards the wall from the flange to push that toilet closer to the wall. (Have a look at the pictures in Terry's post, above; the 14" is on the right.) If you were to put a 12" Unifit in the same space, the distance towards the wall from the flange would be 2" less, so that the toilet would be 2" further from the wall, not 2" closer.

  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member Mollie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Thanks so much for the responses! Ok- I know he did use the 14 in Unifit piece - because I have the 12 in piece in my possession - and saw the empty box that says "14 in" Unifit on it. That was my first burning suspicion - that he really used the wrong size. I myself purchased the toilet with the additional 14 in rough in part. So it looks like my guy did use the right part. It's true that maybe my rough in is 15 inches. I just needed to verify that you can't really botch this install. The toilet works great. It's just puzzling to me why we didn't gain any space. And if only the plumbing was adjusted when the floor was ripped up. But too late.

  9. #9
    Plumber Sean Beck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    48

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wjcandee View Post
    I know it's a little counterintuitive, but in fact you don't quite have it right. The 14" Unifit presumes that the rough-in is 14" from the wall, so it extends 2" further back towards the wall from the flange to push that toilet closer to the wall. (Have a look at the pictures in Terry's post, above; the 14" is on the right.) If you were to put a 12" Unifit in the same space, the distance towards the wall from the flange would be 2" less, so that the toilet would be 2" further from the wall, not 2" closer.
    Yeah you're right. My bad. Only installed a few of these and each was with the 12". Jesus, i've a degree in Maths, and I couldn't work this stupid equation out!

  10. #10
    DIY Senior Member wjcandee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mollie View Post
    Thanks so much for the responses! Ok- I know he did use the 14 in Unifit piece - because I have the 12 in piece in my possession - and saw the empty box that says "14 in" Unifit on it. That was my first burning suspicion - that he really used the wrong size. I myself purchased the toilet with the additional 14 in rough in part. So it looks like my guy did use the right part. It's true that maybe my rough in is 15 inches. I just needed to verify that you can't really botch this install. The toilet works great. It's just puzzling to me why we didn't gain any space. And if only the plumbing was adjusted when the floor was ripped up. But too late.
    Maybe you are holding the 14" one in your hands, and the 12" one is under the toilet. Your guy could have been confused as to which was which (in the same way the contributor a few posts above was a little confused for a moment).

    Clearly, something isn't right. If you had an original Drake (CST744S), and the back of the tank was 4" from the wall, that means you have a rough-in greater than 14". The Drake usually has roughly 1-1/8" behind the tank.

    This would put your rough-in 2-7/8 inches greater than 12", or about 14-7/8 inches. The "II" series Totos, and the one you bought, should have .75" behind it. So you reduce the distance between tank and wall by about 3/8" by using the toilet you installed, if you used the 12" Unifit. Use the 14" Unifit, and the back of your toilet should be an additional 2" closer to the wall. So...you would reduce the distance between tank and wall by about 2-3/8" over your Drake. You would then have about 1-5/8" behind your toilet, not 4. (Or, to do the math another way, take the 3/4" that should exist between the back of your toilet and the wall, add the 7/8" that I think your rough-in exceeds 14", and you get -- voila! -- 1-5/8".)

    You should have reduced the distance between tank and wall by 2-3/8". If you didn't, which should be obvious, and you didn't move the wall and you didn't move the flange, then something's up, and I think Terry hit it right on the head many posts ago.

    Also, for what it's worth, a good plumber can "cheat" a toilet a little closer to the wall by the way he mounts it over the flange -- maybe as much as 5/8". If it's possible to do the same with a Unifit...hmmm. If you have a 3" flange, the hole in the center of the Unifit should be about 2-1/8", so if it's mounted (by fudging with the bolts) a little closer to the wall (say 5/8", there is plenty of difference between the two holes such that the hole from the unifit will still discharge satisfactorily into the 3" hole). Terry (and, I think, Jim) could tell you more about this, but it essentially means that if my math is correct, you could make this toilet look like it was mounted on a normal flange.

    (Of course, it could be that you have a 4" flange and the plumber who installed the Drake moved it within the flange such that he reduced the distance between toilet and wall, and then this guy just installed it straight up, sucking back some of the distance previously-gained. Although that wouldn't account for all of it, it's a possible, albeit-remote, explanation.)

    In short, using my Spidey Sense, I'm looking at the fact that you DID gain the more or less 1/2" difference between the Drake and Guinevere specs, but you DIDN'T gain the 2" you should have from using the 14" Unifit. Spidey says the guy used the wrong rough-in.

    PS Did he read the directions?? Terry says that plumbers don't like to read directions, so he has previously commented (one of my favorites), that the list of required tools to install this toilet includes "Reading Glasses".
    Last edited by wjcandee; 07-30-2013 at 10:37 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Well is a mess
    By smith887 in forum Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-29-2012, 10:38 AM
  2. Please help with this BIG mess
    By biz64 in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-29-2010, 01:31 PM
  3. Cost to install Toto Guinevere unifit toilet
    By k9 in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-31-2010, 07:15 AM
  4. Toilet Install - Flange and Unifit Question
    By pensfan84 in forum Toilet Forum discussions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 11-11-2009, 04:37 PM
  5. A real mess
    By pick in forum Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & Tricks
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-21-2009, 07:00 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •