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Thread: Is it a "vault" that I am looking for?

  1. #16
    DIY Senior Member Homeownerinburb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    Depending on the inspector, modifying this requires bringing things up to current code...probably can't do that without new wires and conduit.

    Inspector?

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member Homeownerinburb's Avatar
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    OK, here is an alternate.

    The problem is that the original rig had two lengths of conduit coming up into a 4x4 weather proof box that was not proof from being buried in the flower bed.

    It rotted away. At least three conductors come out of one of the conduit and dive straight down the next. I don't like the idea of cutting them and trying to extend them, such that I can install a fresh box to contain the the wires in a proper box. And I doubt that I can get the connectors off the conduit and screw them into a fresh box.

    So, how about this? Buy two plastic 4x4 boxes, and cut them with a bandsaw thru the two holes in the bottom, so that there would be a half deep box with two half circles, and an open faced thing with two half circles, and then clamp them over the two conduits and their connectors, with plenty of glue. Possibly some screws to hold them together.

    You toss out half of what you buy, because you want to have the holes be the correct diameter, and not narrowed.

    Or: cut one box in half, and use the gasket from a spare cover plate between the two halves. Silicone to stick the gasket the the back half of the box. On the back box drill out the four corner holes for fixing the face plate clearance diameter for 6-32 stainless steel screws. Run those in from the back and into the front, but don't snug it up until over the conduit connectors. Let them run long enough out the front of the box such that stainless steel nuts can lock down the cover plate?

    At least I have a box, admittedly not one that has been approved as a retrofit box, but what else am I going to do?

    And what the hell, drive some unistrut down behind the box to back it up, run a screw or two to tie it in. Or copper pipe.

    And then a hand hold to protect the whole mess in? Keep the dirt back and the water from the sprinklers away?
    Last edited by Homeownerinburb; 07-15-2013 at 10:14 PM.

  3. #18
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    They make "earth drills" to bore UNDER concrete, so you might only have to break concrete at one end of the conduit, since the other end appears to end in dirt.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  4. #19
    Test, Don't Guess! cacher_chick's Avatar
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    If you are not going to do it right, why not just splice it with regular waterproof splicing sleeves and stick it all back in the ground? I would definitely put it on a gfci, even if it means cutting it into the circuit on the outside of the panel. At least then if someone puts a shovel into it there is something more than just the circuit breaker.

  5. #20
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    They make "earth drills" to bore UNDER concrete, so you might only have to break concrete at one end of the conduit, since the other end appears to end in dirt.

    Cable installers do it all of the time. They get the utilities marked and just do it.

    I guess I do not know what the real problem is. Start at the GFCI and work out.

    May be time to get a Real Pro for the job.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  6. #21
    DIY Senior Member Homeownerinburb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    Cable installers do it all of the time. They get the utilities marked and just do it.

    I guess I do not know what the real problem is. Start at the GFCI and work out.

    May be time to get a Real Pro for the job.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence.

    Yes. I'd like to work in a gfi. Actually three: one for the pool lights and a pair for the 240v pool pump.

    In a 20 space panel that already has 20 tandem breakers.

    So if you could perhaps take in all the information priovided on the problem, I'd thank you.

  7. #22
    DIY Senior Member Homeownerinburb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cacher_chick View Post
    If you are not going to do it right, why not just splice it with regular waterproof splicing sleeves and stick it all back in the ground? I would definitely put it on a gfci, even if it means cutting it into the circuit on the outside of the panel. At least then if someone puts a shovel into it there is something more than just the circuit breaker.
    Your idea of how to shove it all back into the ground solves nothing, btw. I'd be as well served by just dropping a small hand hole over it.

    But I still like the idea of making space for GFIs to protect everything.

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member Homeownerinburb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hj View Post
    They make "earth drills" to bore UNDER concrete, so you might only have to break concrete at one end of the conduit, since the other end appears to end in dirt.
    We are talking 40' with ease, and gawd knows what sort of obstacles on the way.

    The client parks his MASSIVE motorhome just next to the panel.

    If I had to make a new home run conduit for this service, I'd need to at least cut the concrete perpendicular to the panel, under the massive motorhome, then up eight feet of a retaining wall. THEN! THEN! I can turn to the left back toward the broken conduit. 40 or 5o feet.

    Then I need to get a guy in to cut the concrete and pour new concrete. I do know a guy, but he is not going to do it as a favor to anyone. Possibly because he is good.

  9. #24
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    quote; Then I need to get a guy in to cut the concrete and pour new concrete. I do know a guy, but he is not going to do it as a favor to anyone. Possibly because he is good.

    Cut a 3" slot in the concrete, and you don't have to be "good" to pour the concrete back.
    Licensed residential and commercial plumber

  10. #25
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    My advice, if it is not done to meet current codes and would pass an inspection, pass on the job. I know you're looking for easier, less expensive options, and that's good. Sometimes, there aren't any. Not saying that there aren't any here. Last thing you want is someone to end up injured, should it not work out properly (which should not happen if it is done to meet current codes and passes a proper inspection, baring extraordinary actions).

    Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  11. #26
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homeownerinburb View Post
    Thanks for the vote of confidence.

    Yes. I'd like to work in a gfi. Actually three: one for the pool lights and a pair for the 240v pool pump.

    In a 20 space panel that already has 20 tandem breakers.

    So if you could perhaps take in all the information priovided on the problem, I'd thank you.

    You are welcome.

    If you do not have enough breaker space then maybe the service is overloaded.

    I can not even think of why the pump and lights was not put on a GFCI in the first place.

    Just run a extension cord with a GFCI and be done with it. Plug it into the RV, save wire.

    Just kidding of course.

    Good Luck.
    Last edited by DonL; 07-17-2013 at 07:00 AM.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  12. #27
    DIY Senior Member Homeownerinburb's Avatar
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    Well, it certainly looks like a dog's breakfast.

    In point of fact, there are four half width breakers dedicated to this area. One of the 120v circuits is going to be deleted.

    But I should be able to rearrange things in the panel such that I can get in a two pole breaker to serve a subpanel that I could set in the unfinished garage that the panel is fitted to. I could set GFI breakers in that and feed the problem thru that.

    And still find a way to fit a box where the old box rotted out, and set a hand hold over it to keep the soil and water away from it.

    It is doable.

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