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Thread: AC Went out.

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member Auger1981's Avatar
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    Default AC Went out.

    I have a manufactured home with a E2EB-017 HB Furnace.

    This unit has been a nighmare since I moved in here. The latest headache was the drain hose became dislodged from the drip pan. The condensation ran all over the circuits.

    Currently the unit will not start up at all. I have checked all the breakers (main panel & inside). I have tried to run just the fan, by switching it to FAN-ON and nothing happenes. I removed the blower fan / capacitor. There are no reset buttons on the motor. The capacitor appears to be fine both in apperance and by using a multimeter (appears to charge & discharge when reading it in ohms).

    The main relays were soaked as well, but they have been dried out. Readings on them appear to be fine. Although the main contactors appear a little charred, nothing looks out of the normal. Besides, if I am correct, the main contactors are mainly used for supplying power to the heating elements, and therefore would not be used when using AC. If I am wrong, please correct me.

    This leaves me with basically 3 items left. The transformer, the sequencer, & the thermostat. The transformer appears clean, and I dont think it got much water on it. The sequencer was soaked. Using a meter I can read the relays and nothing appears to be stuck (ie NC is closed, and NO is open).

    So this leaves me where I am at the moment. My question is this:

    If I turn on JUST the fan from the thermostat, does it bypass the sequencer ? I have an electronic thermostat, and can not remove the cover to check voltages without basically unplugging it. The controls sandwitch to the junction box with male prongs.

    I'm still leaning that the sequencer may be bad, but am totally lost at this point. ANY input would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you in advance !!

  2. #2
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    For just the indoor fan, then the sequencing should Not be a factor.

    You need to check to make sure your 24 VAC. or whatever Low Voltage that it uses is working. Then go from there.


    Good Luck.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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    DIY Junior Member Auger1981's Avatar
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    Default

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    How would I properly measure the voltages on this please ?

    Black to Ground, and Red to each post ? (Adjusting the meter properly of course).

    The post at the top, both have a triangle symbol under them, and it says 24vac in the middle between them. On the picture it is above the upper bar code, obstructed by the grey wire.
    Last edited by Auger1981; 07-13-2013 at 01:01 PM. Reason: better description

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    DIY Junior Member Auger1981's Avatar
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    Different view.
    Last edited by Auger1981; 07-13-2013 at 03:13 PM.

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    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Being very careful not to touch the bottom two terminals, Just measure the top 24 Volt output with your Voltmeter set on AC voltage, and proper voltage scale to read 24VAC.

    Their may be a safety shutoff close to where that transformer is located, the power will need to be On.

    Be Careful.


    Good Luck.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  6. #6
    DIY Junior Member Auger1981's Avatar
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    OK, update time...

    Read voltages results as follows:

    COM - 115 VAC - Good
    240V - 118 VAC - Not Good
    24V - Upper left (Purple lead) - 24 VAC - Good
    24V - Upper right (Grey Lead) - 0 VAC - Not Good

    Will be replacing the transformer tomorrow when a parts store opens.
    I will update this post one way or another.

  7. #7
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    I think You are measuring Wrong.

    You should be measuring the voltage Across the 24 VAC output and not to ground.

    The Transformer is isolated from Ground.

    The transformer sounds like it is good, But you may be measuring wrong.

    Were you measuring from the terminals to ground ? Or across the transformer windings ?

    If you were measuring to ground, then your transformer is most likely Good.

    You are working on AC and not DC, So the Ground is neutral, or should be.

    You may need to "Call The Man", as Andy G. would say.


    Good Luck
    Last edited by DonL; 07-14-2013 at 09:42 AM.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member Auger1981's Avatar
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    If your talking reading the posts across the top, (grey to purple lead), the the voltage is 25vac +/-.

  9. #9
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auger1981 View Post
    If your talking reading the posts across the top, (grey to purple lead), the the voltage is 25vac +/-.

    Then I would say your transformer is working.

    You have another problem.

    Have you tried to cycle the breakers that feed the unit ?

    Is the 24 VAC making it to your thermostat ?

    This may be past a DIY fix, without being there, it is all a best guess.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member Auger1981's Avatar
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    OK, heres the final update... I hope.

    Rechecked the power at the breakers in the furnace. Found one lead that had no power. Turned off the power & ohm checked it. One side was open. Took out the breaker, cycled it a number of times & rechecked. Now it worked. But still no AC. Chased the 24v line and rechecked the inline fuse, this time it read OPEN. Replaced it and "ta da" we have AC again !!

    Can see the condensation draining from the pan. When the bottom cover is put back into place, the water shifts its flow, and appears to be sucked under the cooling coils causing water to drip on the blower, and run down towards the wiring/circuitry. Other then cleaning the coils more or replacing them, not sure what I can do. The coils were extrememly dirty when i bought this place, & no filters had ever been used I don't think.

    I know the coil replacement requires a certified person (at least in this state it does), so I'm afraid my work here is done. I want to thank you for all your assistance & for putting up with a slow old man. Been a while since I played with electricity / electronics & it sure felt good.

  11. #11
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    The drain line should be installed per the instructions, which means it should have a trap on it. This may or may not help with it sucking from the drain line - it should.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  12. #12
    DIY Junior Member Auger1981's Avatar
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    I think you misunderstood, or I need to explain better.

    It's not sucking water up from the drain line. Because the coils are partilally obstructed, air can not get thru them as it should. Some is but not enough.

    Here is an example of what I did:

    If I leave the bottom cover of the furnace off: Air flow is higher at the vents. Condensation drains as it should. Air is not as cool as it should be. After a period of time, coils frost over. Reason - Air bypassing the coils thru the bottom where the fan is located.

    Placing the bottom cover on the furnace forces all the air to be drawn thru the coils, rather then bypassing them. The warmer air from the house is drawn thru the coils to cool & also prevents frosting. Condensation should roll down into the pan, and drain. But because the air flow thru the coils are restricted, air is sucked in under the pan between the coils & the pan and then run down on top of the blower, and all the circuitry.

    As i said, this furnace was totally abuse before I got here. Wiring was messed up all over. The fan was wired backwards so that in the On position, it worked as it should, but in the Auto position it ran constantly. Wiring used was too short in length from the thermo & heat pump to the point they are wire capped and strung like a banjo.

    I can correct the wiring & plan on doing so this week. But coil replacement or removal/cleaning requires a license in this state, so it's time to call a pro either way.

  13. #13
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Nice that you have it going. Good work.

    You should not operate it with the covers removed, for safety reasons.

    It sounds like your system may not be leveled properly.

    You should be able to clean the coil yourself without removing it. Spray cleaner and a water hose / air hose.

    If you do not open the refrigerant line then you should not need a license.


    Good Luck.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  14. #14
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    It sounds like your air return ducts are not sized properly or are obstructed in some manner. There's a number in the installation manual (most likely) that indicates the acceptable pressure drop/air flow across the coil...sounds like your system does not meet the minimum requirements. It could be that the fan speed is set too high and exceeds your duct capability.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  15. #15
    DIY Junior Member Auger1981's Avatar
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    OK, first to DonL - Thanks, like I said I love electrical/electronics. It is possible that it may be a little off level. I will look further into that. I have been trying to use cleaner on it, but as I mentioned, it was so dirty when I moved here, I pealed off the dust & dirt like a sheet of paper. In the mean time I've been trying to figure out what the tonnage of my heat pump is. I have a link to the specs - http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc...ss-ph12-05.pdf - Its a model PH12NA048-B. If you or anyone is good with the calculations, or see it somewhere in there, please let me know. I need that info to order a new cooling unit, if I so decide.

    To Jadn - You may have missed that this is in a manufactured home. There are no return vents. The air is drawn in from above the unit thru a standard vented cover. This cover comes with the furnace from the manufacture. The cooling unit is an "A-framed" top down unit. The filters for this unit are "On-Coil" filters (I really hate them). The initial issue was the water drain hose falling off, soaking all the components below. We found and corrected 2 problems that were caused from the water, and the furnace is running again. Nothing was done to rewire or change anything.

    Again thank you for both of your responses.

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