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Thread: Trouble Shooting not sure what to do next, where to go?

  1. #16
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    I took of the pressure gauge and disconnected all the lines and replaced them and cleaned the gauge and pressure switch I basically have all new pipe from where the pump pipe enters the house to the bladder tank and nothing has changed. What is really confusing me is the tank why is it empty. I checked everything about it. While everything was disconnected no water in the system I checked the PSI of the tank it is 38 psi and with a 40/60 switch the tank should be filling but there is just no water in there. Could this be a leak at the foot valve or along the pipe in the well that just leaks so much water back down the well that it will not maintain the pressure to fill the tank or could the tanks bladder be collapse within it self it is 18 yrs old?

  2. #17
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigpump View Post
    I have seen so much sediment and iron in a well that the tank T, pressure switch and gauge have been completely plugged.
    That is the only plausible explanation left if the stated pressures are true. I still suspect that the air pressure is reading way wrong and the OP has way too much precharge. In his first post, he said "after I did this (add air) was when I found the short cycle problem".

    The fact though that the pump never shuts off means either the pump is shot or there is a leak in the pipe. Trivial to test for a leak with an air compressor and a pressure gauge you can trust.

  3. #18
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    Well I am getting no where, Tomorrow I am going to rip this thing apart and find the problem. Is there a way to test the well pipe for a leak before I pull it out of the casing and the pump itself can it be tested in the casing? What about the bladder tank is there anyway to test it?

  4. #19
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrisp View Post
    Well I am getting no where, Tomorrow I am going to rip this thing apart and find the problem. Is there a way to test the well pipe for a leak before I pull it out of the casing and the pump itself can it be tested in the casing? What about the bladder tank is there anyway to test it?

    You can fill the line with water and put some air pressure on it, and see if the pressure drops. Or just see if the water goes down after full.

    You could use air for the tank, test it the same way, watching for the pressure to drop.

    If You could add air to your Water Tank, from the water outlet of your pump, you could test the Input tank plumbing also.

    The output of the tank would need to be off, or the air will leak out at your faucets.

    Don't use a compressor that adds oil to the air.

    Have you tried to let all of the air pressure out of the tank to see if it would fill with water ?

    Is your check valve pointing the correct direction ? Silly question I know, but easy mistake.


    Good Luck.
    Last edited by DonL; 07-26-2013 at 07:04 AM.
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  5. #20
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    Yep, thats easy. Pull the drop pipe up a few feet, make up a tee with a gauge and valve, put on the drop pipe and turn the pump on against the closed valve. The pump should build and hold over 100 psi depending on the size pump and depth to water along with the condition of the pump and pipe. If the pump makes pressure but loses it when the pump is turned off with the valve still closed, the problem is in the well, either the pipe, a bad fitting or bad check valve.

  6. #21
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrisp View Post
    Is there a way to test the well pipe for a leak?
    Remove the checkvalve at the house and put a reducer and Tee on the end of the pipe. Screw an air valve in one side and a pressure gauge on the other side. Pressurize it with air and see if it holds. If it doesn't, then you have to lift the pump and repeat at the wellhead.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkrisp View Post
    What about the bladder tank is there anyway to test it?
    Have you confirmed that your air gauge is working right? Try letting some air out so that water can get in. If water still cannot enter the tank, then it is plugged as @craigpump suggested.

  7. #22
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigpump View Post
    ... turn the pump on against the closed valve. The pump should build and hold over 100 psi depending on the size pump and depth to water along with the condition of the pump and pipe. If the pump makes pressure but loses it when the pump is turned off with the valve still closed, the problem is in the well, either the pipe, a bad fitting or bad check valve.
    Don't open the valve at any time while the pump is running as it would let the air out. You need the air to compress and hold the pressure. Water alone won't compress and so won't hold the pressure.

  8. #23
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Don't open the valve at any time while the pump is running as it would let the air out. You need the air to compress and hold the pressure. Water alone won't compress and so won't hold the pressure.

    I agree.

    We don't even know if the pump is working.

    Need to start at square one...
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  9. #24
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    Alright everyone I will post my finding tomorrow afternoon and thanks.

  10. #25
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonL View Post
    Is your check valve pointing the correct direction ? Silly question I know, but easy mistake.
    I was thinking the same thing.

  11. #26
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    I was thinking the same thing.

    That is what it sounds like.

    I would have to be there to believe it.

    And drink a case of beer turning it around.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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  12. #27
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrisp View Post
    ...the tank never fills yet I have water with good flow.
    Kind of blows the backwards checkvalve theory out of the water. Since the pressure gauge is after the checkvalve, it would not jump up to 60 PSI either. You guys are missing the clues.

  13. #28
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Kind of blows the backwards checkvalve theory out of the water. Since the pressure gauge is after the checkvalve, it would not jump up to 60 PSI either. You guys are missing the clues.
    It could if the backwards check valve was leaking a little. Nothing here makes sense. First the pump was short cycling, then it would build to 80 PSI, next it wonít even get to 60 and shut off. All of those are caused by different things. I hope dkrisp isnít drinking that case of beer before he goes out to the well house. Let us know what you find.

  14. #29
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    It could if the backwards check valve was leaking a little...
    Ja, but that doesn't jive with the purported "good flow".

    Quote Originally Posted by valveman View Post
    Nothing here makes sense. First the pump was short cycling, then it would build to 80 PSI, next it won’t even get to 60 and shut off. All of those are caused by different things...
    Actually, they way I read it, first it was cycling normally but when the pump shut off, the water would run back, starting the cycle again. The "short cycling" didn't happen until after he jacked up the precharge.

  15. #30
    Jack of all trades DonL's Avatar
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    What is strange is that water can go into and out of the tank, but yet no water in the tank. It may just be over charged.

    Maybe water is making it back thru the Water Softener for some reason.

    The Pipes may not be connected as thought.


    My guess is it will be something simple to find, but could be hard to fix.


    It will be nice to know the outcome.
    Theory only works perfect in a vacuum.

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