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Thread: Trouble Shooting not sure what to do next, where to go?

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    Default Trouble Shooting not sure what to do next, where to go?

    My system:
    Currently working on my Well/Pump system I have a submersible pump in a 4" well fed to my house through the floor using poly piping, to a 20gallan bladder tank (amtrol) hope I spelled that right, then into a softener, then to the house.
    My situation:
    The well short cycles but I am not sure why basically I have a 40-60 switch on the system it will come on at about 38psi and shut off at 64psi however the time between shut off and turn back on is 40 seconds with no water running in the house. I have checked all lines in the house repeatedly (very easy in my house with everything open to basement.
    What I have done:
    I have checked the bladder tank it was at 18psi I pumped it back up to 38psi (this was done with pump off and water drained from system at the tank level. after I did this was when I found the short cycle problem. To cut the system in half I put a check valve in the water line between the poly pipe coming from the well pipe and the pressure tank. To my surprise this did nothing the system still sits there short cycling I figured there was a leak in the poly line outside the house or down the well pipe so with the check valve in line it should have held the tank at pressure but it didn't.

    I am lost on what to do next any help would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Moderator valveman's Avatar
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    That size tank should deliver about 5 gallons of water as the water is let out and the pressure drops from 60 to 40 PSI. If the tank is still good, you are losing 7 GPM somewhere. Adding the extra check valve was a good way to test for water going back down the well, and apparently it isn’t. So water must be going the other way. Put a ball valve on the line to the house and close it off. Then if the pressure still bleeds off, it is going somewhere between the new check valve you added and the new ball valve.

    I would think a 7 GPM leak would be easy to find, but I have seen stranger things many times. Also check that your tank is holding the 5 gallons it should. Just open a hose to a bucket as soon as the pump shuts off at 63 PSI. See how much you get before the pressure gets to 40.

    You still have a leak. But if the tank is waterlogged, the leak could be very small. If the tank is still good, then it is a big leak.

  3. #3
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrisp View Post
    I have checked the bladder tank it was at 18psi I pumped it back up to 38psi
    Sometimes a bladder can have a one-way leak, where the water leaks across to the air side but then adding air does not push the water out so what you end up with is mostly water and a little bit of air on the air side. A drawdown test as valveman suggests will confirm that.

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    Ok took all your advice and did the following:

    I shut off the valve after the tank and to the house all the piping is directly in front of me the pressure gauge is now going all the way to 80 psi before it shuts off then instantly drops to 60 then slowly over 40ish seconds again drops to turn on again. Once again this is with the check valve between the well and the tank and the ball valve between the house and the tank. I can also pick up the tank it is very light.

  5. #5
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Is the checkvalve you added between the pump and the switch/gauge or between the tank and the switch/gauge? Is all the piping between the checkvalve and tank visible?

    What type of checkvalve is it, spring loaded or swing gate? Are you sure the checkvalve is in good working condition?

    Have you verified that the water pressure gauge and air pressure gauges both read correctly?

  6. #6
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    Even if the diaphram is bad the tank should eventually fill. I'm guessing that there is something holding the new check valve open and there is a leak in the well.

  7. #7
    DIY Senior Member Smooky's Avatar
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    My first thought is it is leaking back into the well, if you know there are no other leaks. Could the water softener be stuck in a back wash cycle? You don’t have a Florida heat pump or water cooled ice machine etc? A few dozen toilet flappers leaking might cause a leak that big. When this happens at my house it means the spigot out by the hog pen has been run over and broken again. This is soon followed by the well going dry.

  8. #8
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    Now you all see why I am so confused.
    The check valve is in the floor at the brass nipple coming from the well on the poly hose. it is before the pressure switch and the pressure gauge the house cut off valve is after the bladder tank between the tank and the softener, so the softener is taken out of the equation as well. The type of check valve I have is the same you put on the well pump at the bottom of the well and it is spring activated.

  9. #9
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    Post a pic?

    Still sounds like a leaky check valve
    Last edited by craigpump; 07-09-2013 at 05:16 AM.

  10. #10
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    I will pull the valve and see what happens

  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    I was able to work on this thing today my well is basically running 24-7. And now i am totally lost. I turn on the well it runs up to 60psi and now it never turns off the tank a 20 gal tank I can pick it up and shake it there is never any water in it. When I turn off the pump switch the psi instantly drops to 10 PSI and stays there. When i turn the well switch back on it shoots up to 60 psi and never turns off.

    please any words of wisdom

  12. #12
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLigetfa View Post
    Have you verified that the water pressure gauge and air pressure gauges both read correctly?
    If it says 60 PSI but the tank is empty then someone is a liar.

  13. #13
    DIY Junior Member dkrisp's Avatar
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    i replaced the gauge because the old one was doing the same thing so gauge is good the pressure switch is also new. the psi say 60 but never goes over that and keeps running even when there is no call for water
    and the tank never fills yet I have water with good flow.

  14. #14
    DIYer, not in the trades LLigetfa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrisp View Post
    I have checked the bladder tank it was at 18psi I pumped it back up to 38psi
    If that were true, then 60 PSI water would have to fill the tank so then maybe your air pressure gauge is a liar.

  15. #15
    DIY Senior Member craigpump's Avatar
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    I have seen so much sediment and iron in a well that the tank T, pressure switch and gauge have been completely plugged.

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