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Thread: Water Rate and Back washing.

  1. #1
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
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    Default Water Rate and Back washing.

    Hello to all,I'am in the first stages of trying to decide witch program I should use on a 7000SE filter head.The only thing we want to filter is (Manganese 0.237)at this point,This will include a softer later.The DLFC has 7000 and 5.0 gpm on-it,we have a timer running the well pump so it kicks-on every 2hr for 3mins thinking after 24hrs the total gals is about 50gals?into a holding tank..Low yielding well and need to save on back washing.

    Does it make more sence to add a meter cable and sensor to the valve body and the turbine meter assy,7000 to this unit??If a DIY can handel this steps..or would be easyer to calcalate how many gals was used or programming a day of the week system in the service manual page 15.The frequency can be addid later if needed?Media tank 10x54.

    The manual reads Regenerated programming steps is this the same as back washing steps?with media and a continuose chlorine injecktion set-up it calls for once a week back wash rate on this application.Thank you all!

  2. #2
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Adding the turbine and meter is extremely easy on the 7000, you can see it in my video link below. Am I reading correctly that you only get 50 gallons per day out of your well? A meter is not normal on a backwashing system, but it is not unheard of either. I prefer to backwash iron removal medias on a regular basis, rather than on a meter since the amount of sediment buildup can et excessive, and thus requires longer backwashes. You could try the meter and set it to 500 gallons, and watch the backwash to see how long it takes to run clear. Then do it again except put the meter to 1000 gallons and do the same test.

    Estimating your average daily water use is normally ok for a filter since you are not using a consumable like salt.

    Let us know how you are going to proceed.

  3. #3
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Truckkerjoe, a softener removes manganese along with hardness and iron. Since you have a low flow well (low recovery actually), although I doubt you're only getting 50 gals per day out of it, one piece of equipment will use less water than 2 or more. And adding a meter is probably going to be iffy and expensive.

    So tell me about the well, how deep is it? What is the static water level, that means how deep down to the water in the well. In MD it should be a 6" well, maybe 5". A 6" gets (IIRC) roughly 1.5 gal per foot of water. That is stored water and usually a well like yours would be controlled by float switches in the tank rather than a timer set for every 2 hrs and a pump run time of only 3 minutes, although we don't know the gpm that produces.

    How large is the tank?

    What type pump is used in or after the tank? I can't see how you can run a house on only 50 gallons per day unless only one person lives there, and then it would be questionable.

    How many bathrooms? How many people live there?
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  4. #4
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
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    Again thanks ditto and Gary,
    Lets start with gary=The softern I have isn't working media=Ionac C-249 and its only 3yrs old? now I want a Filter too.Iron removal.
    Well pump sits at 130ft,and from what well man told=90ft which is 130gal so half a gal per.mint?Thats 30gal.a hour or 300gals per.10hrs?(6'' case.) Can add longer time if i need to.lastly jet pump after cistern.
    Ok Ditto=I'am just thinking maybe a regular basis also but not sure how to program this 7000 going by the Service Manual?It states day of the week but it also say's REGENERATE not backwash (Page 15) are these steps the same prosses,

    Just mainly want this iron filter to use the most amount of cf.water before full exhusttion having a hard time figuring out total gallons needed before next backwash?Mainly 1 time a week is what someone told me.THANKS all of you PROS

  5. #5
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    Correct, regenerate is the entire process including backwash. Filter system are commonly called backwashing systems. Adding a meter to the 7000 is easy and only requires some simple reprogramming. I can walk you through it if you go that route. backwash frequency is based on how much iron, how much water, and type of media. Every seven days is not unheard of, and the iron filter systems have much higher backwash rates that softeners so the backwash time is often lowered from the default of 10 minutes down to as little as 4 minutes, again depending on the type of media. If you consider a Pyrolox system in a 10" tank uses 15 GPM, 150 gallons is not necessary to clean the media. So a more reasonable 4 minutes or 60 gallons (still a lot!) is more typical.

  6. #6
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Truckerjoe, you didn't answer how many bathrooms or people live there.

    IMO you should fix the softener, especially since you only want to filter .02 ppm of manganese.

    What control valve is on the softener? What size softener is it? What is it doing it shouldn't be doing? What is it not doing that it should be doing?

    If you go to an 'iron' filter, your shallow well, single line jet pump is going to have a really tough time (read won't backwash it properly) with any type of heavy mineral, and use much more water than a softener has to.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  7. #7
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
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    Thanks again Gary,The number of people and bathrooms doesn't matter at this point because this softener is softening the water in cistern first THEN jet pump then holding bladder-tank,house, so backwash rate I have 28psi and the jet pump and 500gals of water can handle!!! by the way it is a fleck5600Ecm.I wound like to use just this set-up,I had tested the water in cistern with H5 tester and it's soft but the mang.is still there.The 5600ecm,I think (white) injector? sometimes it uses about 50g and other times just half?????
    10x54 Reg.after ever 70gals. and the salt is on 12lbs.
    RE-cap=well pump,softener,cistern,hold tank then house,we want to softer water before cistern!!! sick of cleaning this 500gal tank. A lot good help on this forum and thanks to all.

  8. #8
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Just a few details you may not be aware of and others here probably wouldn't get into.

    If the cistern is cement, the soft water will probably dissolve it.

    If the well pump is controlled by a timer (as you said it is, and only runs every 2hrs for a few minutes) the softener will not get any regeneration water unless the pump is running at the time the regeneration starts, and then during all the usually up to 90 minutes it takes for a regeneration. The softener will go through all the regeneration but without water.

    The same applies if the well pump is controlled with float witches. And in my opinion, it would be difficult (if possible) to control the well pump with a pressure switch and pressure tank to allow water to the before the cistern softener.

    So again, I suggest the softener be used after the cistern for both hardness and manganese removal. Plus, you have said that the softener isn't working now and it may be due to not getting water to regenerate with.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  9. #9
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
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    Gary Thanks for the extra replys!!!! This is a plastic tank and sorry I didn't explain it better so here is a pic this will help you a bit-better?2 soloinds with a micro-switch one normaly open and one normally closed, so incoming water doesn't dead- head 5600.so it's getting Regenrate water.What about not using roughly 50gals per regen??Thanks you Sir.and keep-on-truckkin!!!! Name:  0206141643.jpg
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  10. #10
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    You are trying to do a treated water regeneration. Looks good. Is this drawing similar to what you are doing? Name:  treated water regen.jpg
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  11. #11
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ditttohead View Post
    You are trying to do a treated water regeneration. Looks good. Is this drawing similar to what you are doing? Name:  treated water regen.jpg
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    YES Thats the ticket!!!!!
    I assuming when these solenoids stay hot that they are working??? Don't trust,I guess a good cleaning from time to time is in order,Many many thanks.

  12. #12
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Comparing the picture to the diagram, the picture shows the line to the vertical solenoid valve on the softener's inlet not connected to anything. In the diagram it should be connected to the outlet of the jet pump. And the line from the well pump should be the same ID as the well pump outlet pipe. Any reduction in ID is not good for the well pump IMO.

    Do you have a check valve in the line from the well to the inlet of the softener? Is there an external check valve on the outlet of the well pump or an internal check valve in the well pump?

    How about describing the plumbing from the jet pump to the softener.

    And does the outlet of the softener go back into the cistern?

    Describe the timer setup that controls the well pump. Is that all that controls the well pump?

    And when the softener goes into regeneration, is the well pump shut off so the jet pump and the well pump are not running at the same time?
    Last edited by Gary Slusser; 02-07-2014 at 08:13 AM.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  13. #13
    In the Trades Tom Sawyer's Avatar
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    Ahhh yes....PEX with hose clamps. A recipie for disaster
    [B]No, plumbing ain't rocket science. Unlike rocket science, plumbing requires a license[B]

  14. #14
    Water systems designer, R&D ditttohead's Avatar
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    I rarely use Pex, but when I do, I use the Oetiker clamps with the proper tool. I am not a fan of the poly sleeves, what is your opinion on this? I have used this combination for 25 years on portable exchange tanks with braided vynil tubing, and many of the Pex manufacturers sell the steplees oetiker style clamps. Name:  clamp.jpg
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    And... can I have your recipe for recipie? It sounds delicious!
    Last edited by ditttohead; 02-07-2014 at 11:48 AM.

  15. #15
    DIY Junior Member truckkerjoe's Avatar
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    Hello Gary,sorry the pic I took doesn't show all that is all there.The vertical solenoids are both connected to well inlet and fleck5600 outlet,so the inlet side is tee-off,when it calls for regen.microw-switch tells timer not to open.Your next question=well pump has a internal check valve so my question to you do you recommend a in-line check before the softener also?and lastly plumbing from jet to softener 28psi and 1' plastic pipe.The pump and regen.are not running at the same time because of the micros switches,and a safety float that stops overflowing this cistern tank,I hope I wrote this better so someone can understand whats going on…sorry and THANK-YOU

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